5yo DD violent outbursts

[Zapx]

Hi everyone, really keen for advice.

Me 5yo DD is increasingly having violent outbursts and I’m really not sure what to do. They are mostly directed at my 3yo DS but also at me/DH.
Examples include- pushing DS off a settee, hitting DS in the car and refusing to stop such that I had to stop the car, trying to bite me when I was holding her hands to stop her from hitting DS, trying to pull DS under the water when out swimming etc etc.

Things I’ve tried: taking toys away (she truly doesn’t care), sitting her on the stairs until she can stop doing whatever it is (she will happily sit there for ages saying that she hates everyone and trying to hit anyone who walks past), cuddles and asking her why she’s done it (she just says she doesn’t like him).

She can be loving, delightful, and an absolute joy, and they can play really really happily together, but I feel I’m really failing her atm by failing to get this behaviour under control.

Thanks so much for any advice.

Would you be ok with teachers shutting children in a room by themselves as a punishment then?

A child biting, pushing smaller children over and off furniture, and pulling them underwater?

I think you'd find that child would be placed in isolation while parents are called to come and get them because they are being excluded.

That's not my experience.

Last year my pre-schooler showed some extremely aggressive behaviours at his nursery and home. We'd had a bereavement in the family and there was a lot of upheaval, alongside his little sister getting mobile and suddenly being a lot more of a rival. My instincts were to fight fire with fire and we were all spiralling. It got worse and worse. However I read a lot of books (listed in a comment. above) and nursery worked with us to recognise his triggers. We all gave him the vocabulary to communicate his emotions and offer alternative outlets for his aggression (for example throwing a ball as hard as you can to burn off some adrenaline). We switched the attention (ie shouting or telling off or taking him to his room) from the negative behaviour and instead spent time actively praising every single positive thing that we could. We showered him with love and attention when he was kind, calm and all the good things we wanted to see. When there were outbursts we would offer him a calm space to be or suggest he go through the options he had for processing that anger and then afterwards we'd talk through what happened and how it could have gone better. We showed that all people get angry/frustrated sometimes but that were were ways to deal with them. Like taking a breath to calm your nervous system.

Fast forward a year and my 5.5 year old is someone who 80+% of the time

• takes a breath before reacting with almost everyone including parents, his little sister, friends, teachers etc
• reminds me to do the same when I'm experiencing frustration
• takes himself out of/asks to leave situations when he feels he's going to react aggressively due to overstimulation
• has recognised peer pressure and actively resisted it
• is able to tell his teachers and us when something is too much for him

He's one of the kindest, gentlest most articulate kids I know. Unrecognisable from a year ago. And I have every faith that if we keep working together he's going to be an awesome teen and adult. Would far rather be the parent he can communicate his absolute worst self too and we can work together to help him through it rather than teaching him that if he slips that he's on his own and has to work it out by himself in complete isolation.

I've only been a parent 5.5 years, I have a lot to experience and learn but so far I'd say that when I tried doing things as you've suggested it was completely awful for all of us and more people continued to suffer the consequences as a result. Whereas his nursery, pre school and school have all been completely on board with teaching him that these emotions are part of being human, that he's stronger than his temper and that we're here for him with ideas and tools whilst we work out how he can beat it.

you are talking about a baby. The OP is talking about a school child. so what is the relevance?

The title of the thread is 5yo DD. My son is 5.5.

@Beansandneedles thanks so much for the book recommendations!

And thanks everyone for all your advice. I completely recognise that she’s massively struggling and I really need to help her more. She can be just so utterly delightful it’s really tricky when she then just seems to “turn” etc.

I really hope they help as much as they did me. They were seriously revolutionary. Also mostly available as audiobooks if that's handy. My OH preferred listening to reading and it was helpful that we were both in the know

I think you would find that alot of those teens have experienced either 'permissive' parenting with no boundaries and insecure attachments, or 'authoritatian' parenting with harsh and unfair boundaries which causes simmering resentment and frustration, and again lack of attachment with parents which then comes to a head in the teenage years.

Successful and happy relationships are based around respect, communication and empathy....sending a child to their room and leaving them there upset for some time does not model and teach any of those things for them.

Google 'behaviourist' and 'relational' approaches and you will see the difference in your stance and mine.
Relational approach recognises the child's feelings and emotional reasons behind their behaviours, and that the adult needs to support the child in managing these appropriately, in order for them to then learn how to do this themselves.

I dont need to google anything thank you, I know far more about this than you

It's hilarious to see the usual hysterics pretending that putting her in a room is not a solution. Of course it is. She absolutely WILL learn to self-regulate when she realises that being violent isn't getting her what she wants. It's basic, standard discipline and safeguarding and definitely does work, and it's a parent's job to show children that their unacceptable lack of respect for others and refusal to allow other people safety and boundaries will not result in them getting what they want and will result in being ostracised. If she keeps it up she will have no friends and be in permanent trouble in school. Terribly lazy and cruel parenting to not discipline effectively by preventing her from hurting others, and particularly vicious and cruel to those around her bein hurt when you could easily prevent it. .

Incredibly lazy and cruel to pretend children are little adults with the same reasoning capacity as adults.

And regardless of ae, removing the violent person, whatever age, from the area when possible is perfect. The other solution is to remove everyone from the violent person, but that wouldn't work here.

Sorry for typos.

It's also bizarre to try to pretend that picking a child up and putting them in another room, explaining that they are not allowed to be violent and harm others and can come back out when they have chosen to stop, is in some way harsh. It's not.

I agree with the PP who suggested putting the child in her room.

We had a lot of trouble at this age / my DS was very jealous of the baby, We did a parenting course. Nobody suggested putting them in their room - if only it was so easy.

Look up the zones of regulation - this helped alot , draw your boundaries and be really consistent with them, have some time every week/day where you focus your time on them. Read child focused books about anger and how to cope with it: It’s hard work. Ultimately my DS is helped by doing a lot of vigorous exercise everyday. It could be drawing, dancing … but if you find what activity helps your DC regulate it will help: they won’t find this by being put in in their room.

I just don't see how it deals with the root of the issue tbh.

Hmmm i'm not sure you do.
However it's not a competition of knowledge here- I'm just explaining that we have different opinions, relating to the two different approaches.

Very well put.

Removing the person from the situation so they don't hurt others or themselves - completely agree with you. Preventing the younger sibling or anyone being hurt should be step 1. It will also prevent the aggressor from doing something she is likely to feel bad about. It makes sense and I can see where you're coming from that it isn't bad parenting to do this.

However I completely see the point from others that where that person then learns in a safe and loving environment is with the follow up. Working with that person to help them learn how to be calm, how to regulate, how to recognise where they went wrong, and how they could do better next time. Showing how to deflect that anger or process the adrenaline is an incredible tool to provide someone with anger which is obviously overwhelming them.

I can only speak for my own experience. I was often left to work stuff out alone as a kid. I was a straight A student throughout elementary and high school, very sensible, lots of friends, but I had a vile temper. As does my mother and her father. I believed it was completely hereditary and it put me off wanting to reproduce as it seemed to be a flaw in our genes. There was no modelling of appropriate behaviour, but equally if you lost your temper you were banished until you could behave. When alone, much like a pp, I turned that temper inward. I believed I was a horrid person, I self harmed and talked to myself in a very unhealthy way. I think the first time I hit myself and scratched till I drew blood i must have been 7 or 8. I always did it where noone would see and told noone.

I learned to control that temper after therapy in my 30's. I have a degree, a decent job, have never been in trouble with the law. But it took me investing in a professional to learn self-regulation and honestly to stop thinking I was an awful person because of it.

It's not outlandish to offer a child assistance in this area. These littles are learning to be people. We help people learn manners, hygiene, societal norms. They can be helped to learn self-regulation too.