My best friend's daughter just isn't very nice to my daughter

[Cheezepleaze]

Our daughters are 11. They go to the same school, same class etc. Her daughter is more confident than mine, mine is a people pleaser and has had a hard time with friendships. She's having sessions with the school mental health support worker.

My child started telling me a few months ago that my friend's daughter is actively leaving her out and putting her down. I then witnessed this on the walk home from school when they were with other children and told my best friend what had happened. She told me she would speak to her child, but the week after, it happened again as if nothing had been said to her. I flagged it up again to both my friend and her husband on this occasion and her husband seemed irritated and told me that his daughter is a kind, loving soul.

We made different arrangements for school pick up to try to avoid the situation which has helped. But my child is telling me that her friend is being quite abrupt and rude with her. I still collect both girls from school on Wednesdays but drive them to try to avoid the situation of my friend's daughter showing off to the other kids. I've heard the girl say things to my child during the drive home to my daughter a few times now. Once she said that her dog does not like her, on the day before world book day she had my daughter guessing who she was dressing up as and was laughing and rolling her eyes at her suggestions and abruptly saying things like "no, as if...". I had to intervene and say "nobody has any idea, it would be impossible to guess." She loves keeping my daughter in the dark about things in general which she does I think to feel more powerful than her. She also will always choose another girl over my child every time but wants my daughter when the other girl is not around. They will arrange to video call in the evenings sometimes and will keep ending the call to speak to each other, making my child wait, then coming back to her again.

I spoke to my child about sticking up for herself better and spending time with two other girls on their class who are very quiet and kind. She did this and was met with her friend being upset and telling my daughter "we've always been best friends and now you're hurting my feelings" which hooked my child back in again. The girl's parents clearly don't think she's capable of this behaviour so I'm wasting my time. It has really impacted my relationship with my best friend too.

The school are aware but as a lot of it happens on the drive/walk home from school and after school, there isn't a lot they can do. They were also shocked when I told them and said that the friend is usually such a kind girl and that they had even paired her up to support the new girl in September (who has since made other friends I understand).

The situation feels complicated given I'm best friends with her mum and that she and her husband don't seem to want to know.

I'm looking for advice on how to support my daughter? Do I start speaking to the friend myself if I see things happen? Do I keep telling my best friend and her husband what is happening? Do I refuse to collect their daughter on Wednesdays from now on?

In this situation I would stop collecting your friend’s daughter. You need to prioritise your own child and it must feel horrible for her.

Just see your friend in the evenings. Send a strong message to your child that they are worth sticking up for, organise things with the nice girls, and explain to your daughter that when she is terminated on the video call that she should maybe then get on with her own activities rather than going back.

I'd get her involved in something out of school too.

Your best friend's DD is using your daughter to boost her own ego. You need to stop this. Stop picking this girl up, insist that if your DD is dropped from a call she does not answer when the other girl calls back. Standing up for yourself is a life skill that your DD needs to learn.

You need to stop forcing her to be in this child's company.

It must be a real headfuck for her to have someone be unkind to her but then have her mum pick her up and expect her to be in her company too. No wonder she can't stick up for herself, you're sending very mixed messages.

Get her into a couple of after school clubs and make sure she's busy doing something so she hasn't got time to video chat either, arrange to do some baking or watch a film or go for a walk etc. If that's not possible then the first time they pause the chat tell your dd to hang up and not answer again. Teach her to set boundries.

You need to have your child's back here, and if that means your friend gets pissed off then so be it.

They need to avoid each other. They probably aren’t natural friends but have fallen into the friendship due to their mother’s friendship. I would give your child the opportunity to have space from each other too.

They have been ‘best friends’ for ages because their mothers are. Not because they developed a friendship independently at school.

I have seen this play out with my closest friend and another friend of ours. Their girls had grown up together, my friend did a bit of childcare before and after school. As the girls got to 10 it became quite clear they wouldn’t be friends if their mothers weren’t and if there was no childcare arrangement.

The girls didn’t even want to be friends really. But had been brought up with an expectation that they would be. One felt like the friendship was almost like a claim. But didn’t really like the other one. Year 5 and 6 was drama after drama. When they got to high school, they didn’t really interact with eachother and haven’t spoken since. They are in year 9 now still not spoken.

It’s complex. They don’t want to be friends but have been brought up thinking they should be. But because they don’t get on, it ends up going very sour very quickly.

Agree with others. Take the history and fact that you're friends with the other girl's mum out of the situation and tackle what you have, which is another child being unpleasant to your dd.

Actually, my friendship only developed with my best friend because of the girls. We went to a toddler group before they started school and the girls were constantly drawn to each other, playing together all the time, every single week. They would cry when we were leaving and hold on to each other so one week, her mum invited us to their house and that's how it all started really. It just so happens that we lived around the corner from each other which we never realised so our friendship developed too. We were both pretty new to the area at the time and so leaned on each other.

The friendship has been far from forced, but I would say that my child is infatuated with her whilst my friend's daughter seems to see the friendship in a whole different light.

It’s a difficult situation but I’d be honest with your friend, not in blaming the daughter as she’s obviously not believing it, but just say they aren’t getting on. You’ve said about the situation before so your friend will know.

Then work really hard on getting your daughter to establish other friendships and sticking up for herself.

PS stop picking her up, it’s giving the little wotsit an opportunity.

They were toddlers. That doesn’t mean it’s a genuine life long friendship.

They are only spend so much time together and have done for a few years, because you are friends.

If you hadn’t have liked your friend, their friendship wouldn’t have lasted long either. On the flip side, if the kids go to high school and never speak again, will you no longer speak to your friend? Of course you will. Because she is your friend and you like her.

I can guarantee they have grown up with the assumption that they should be friends. Even been told it when there’s been problems. ‘Oh you have been friends for so long, you like her really’ type of thing.

It’s not a judgement. It’s how life is. But often as parents we don’t recognise when things have changed or the children have changed and aren’t maybe that compatible anymore.

Please continue to teach your daughter to stick up for herself. And speak to her about why some people get upset when we hold boundaries. Your friends daughter is used to your daughter being go a 'people pleaser' and as PP have said, use her to boost her own self esteem. Your daughter sticking up for herself will upset this dynamic.
It's such an important life lesson- people who use others based on what they get out of it aren't friends. True friends care if what they say upsets us, and should be wanting us to stick up for herself.
Unfortunately, it may look like your day is being the 'bad guy' for sticking up for herself- and it may have implications for your friendship as well. But you're her mum, you need to have her back (been there, got the t shirt, lost some 'friendships' along the way).

You need to move your DD away from the friendship. You could say to your friend 'I don't think the girls are that friendly any more' - less emotive if they don't want to deal with her behaviour.

Absolutely this. It is really common in year 5 / 6 when children start becoming more aware of who they are that their friendships shift. I expect your friend’s daughter is not mature enough to navigate this tactfully so instead is being mean.

Explain to your daughter that this is common and it isn’t personal, that they can remain friends but perhaps need a little distance between each other. Help her with those boundaries especially the online nonsense. Show your DD that friendships are not power struggles.

i agree with saying to your friend that their friendship seems to have drifted, shrug and don’t make a big thing about it.

I think it’s tricky - I was an awkward child who was really attached to a friend who had outgrown me. It was painful at the time but I can see now that honestly I was a bit intense and suffocating, and this otherwise very nice (too nice for her own good!) girl reached the end of her ability, at 11, to put up with my neediness with good grace. And was a bit abrupt in an attempt to get some space and put in some boundaries.

The sad fact is that nobody is required to be our friend if they aren’t feeling it. And if we can’t take a hint, people will become a bit more blunt. And I don’t think that is necessarily unkind. I agree with others that rather than trying to twist this girl’s arm into being with your daughter like she used to be, you need to let them separate more. The current situation is not nice for anyone.

Stop referring to the other child as your daughter’s friend, she isn’t
Stop the Wednesday pickups, it’s not working for your child
Stop calling this woman your “best friend”, she isn’t

If you’re going to stay friends with her, you need to do it totally independently of your children, then you’ll see how much of a friend she is

I echo @Bunnyhair. It's not nice being the parent of the outgrown child, but it does happen. You used the word 'infatuated' OP - must be awful for your little girl, but whilst the other girl may not be being particularly kind, she's in a forced friendship situation and is navigating it.

There are two issues here and it might be helpful to separate them.

The first issue is the relationship between your DD and the other girl, who, from what you've written, is treating your DD badly in the subtle but deeply unpleasant way that some tween girls specialise in. Forget that this girl is the daughter of your friend, and advise your DD as you would if a different classmate who was treating her like this, and certainly put a stop any situations that bring them together, like lifts.

The second issue is your friendship with the mother. I think it is possible for an adult friendship to survive the fallout of kids' friendships, but only if the parents are honest about the situation and acknowledge and poor behaviour in their DC. If the other mum was to say, "Cheeze, I know my daughter isn't behaving well. I have told her this, and I'll keep telling her, but right now she isn't listening. Please tell me if it gets worse, I want to know", then I think there would be a path forward. But if the parents have their heads in the sand, then in all honesty I couldn't even consider remaining friends with either of them.

I’d stop the pick ups. The children simply aren’t friends anymore and the parents are forcing them into an unpleasant situation.

The girls have outgrown the friendship and that's the line you take with your friend.

Stop the Wednesdays "the girls have outgrown the friendship and they need some time apart so my DD can make her own friends"

If that doesn't suffice tell your friend "My DD is clearly annoying your DD and doesn't want to be friends anymore, DD needs space."

Speak to the school again and state what is going on and ask them to support your DD in make several new friends and help her hold her boundaries within the other girl.

It may not be forever that they need to be separated but at the moment they do.

I spoke to my child about sticking up for herself better and spending time with two other girls on their class who are very quiet and kind.

Continue with this. Maybe arrange some get togethers with these girls out of school.

Stop the video calls after school, they’re ridiculous. They’re 11 and have been together in school all day, they don’t need to video call each other after school. The video calls are a tool for this girl to continue to be mean to your daughter.

End the arrangement for lifts. “The girls don’t seem to be getting on at the moment, they’re together all day in school so I think they need some space from each other”.

They’re 11 so I’m assuming they’re in primary school and there’s only a few more months of this before summer holidays and high school. Make sure they’re not in the same form at high school. High schools are usually good about accommodating this type of request.

Definitely stop the video calls. When we were kids we could have a break from bullying/ difficult dynamics when we got home from school. In this generation with the use of phones and social media it never stops unless we intervene.

Keep encouraging the other friendships too

I'd cut out the childcare, reduce the time they're together and work on giving your daughter time with other kids.

When talking to your friend, I would switch to language like 'they're not getting on' or 'they've grown apart' rather than 'your daughter is being mean/unkind/nasty' etc. Try and avoid blame and finger pointing. They're not going to want to hear that their daughter is being nasty. Plus, she's 11. She's probably dealing with her own issues, she's not necessarily destined to be a dreadful person.

Haven't been able to read all the responses so maybe this has already been said but I really think you need to prioritise your childs mental health needs, is she seeing the school mental health worker due to this girls behaviour? What does the worker say? Yes i would drop the collections, id sign my daughter up for an activity outside of school like gymnastics or dance and advise your friend you can no longer collect her daughter. I would ask for a meeting with the school teacher and explain the impact this girl is having and ask them to try and pair up your daughter with another girl. Could you arrange playdates with one of these other girls from school? I would also cut down on these video calls, take your daughter out instead. Over time the friendship should reduce especially if this girl doesnt see your daughter as a real friend and always chooses someone else. See your friend in the evening. I wouldn't say anything more to your friend about it, if she brings it up just advise the girls seem to have drifted apart.

This is a difficult one, because as much as I am sad for your DD, I think children should be free to pick their own friends and they shouldn't have to include another child in their friendship group out of some sense of duty just because the other child wants it, or because there is a longstanding family friendship there. What might have worked when they were four isn't necessarily going to work as they grow up and change. This girl is turning into a very confident and slightly dominant character but if her teachers say she's a kind girl at heart then I am sure she is. It's just that she takes your highly sensitive and not very confident DD for granted and is clearly socially outgrowing her.

Adults can often insist that the friendship is kept going for the sake of one child, but to the irritation and detriment of the other, who is ready to move on and wants to be free to do so without the guilt heaped on them.

It isn't really fair when you think about it. As adults we have agency to choose who we spend our free time with. We don't have to invite that slightly needy and boring next door neighbour or the really annoying colleague to our private barbecue party, even though we've invited the colleagues and neighbours we do really like. And it would be ridiculous to suggest that we should. Yet we do that to our children all the time. We tell them to 'be nice' and to include everyone. If we wouldn't do it, why do we expect our children to?

That said, this girl seems to be happy to have your DD dangling on a string when it suits her, like a faithful puppy grateful for crumbs, but she clearly puts her time and effort into nurturing other friendships that she feels are more exciting. This is a normal part of growing up and spreading your wings a bit, but it sucks to be the one left behind.

I honestly don't think any good can come of intervening with either the girl or her parents. That will just create defensiveness and friction. It will spoil your own friendship with the parents. Your focus should be less on the behaviour of the other girl and more on helping your DD build resilience, confidence and self esteem and create a social life outside of this friendship.

If this were my DD I'd be advising her to stop making the first move with this girl. She needs to find groups and hobbies that open up new opportunities for her. There must be other girls (and boys) in the year group who are more suited to DD's personaility type and interests. She should make it her priority to seek them out. Even if it means spending some time alone until other friendships fall into place, she should make herself less and less available for the other girl. Clearly spending so much time with her now is damaging to your DD's self esteem so it's no great loss. Better to be alone for a bit than in a one-sided friendship that always leaves you feeling unsure of where you stand.

They will arrange to video call in the evenings sometimes and will keep ending the call to speak to each other, making my child wait, then coming back to her again.

You need to tell your DD to start weaning herself off these calls and to make sure she is never the one who instigates them. When the other girl tries to plan a call your DD should work on saying 'I can't tonight, I've got XYZ to do. Maybe tomorrow.' Or just to leave the call unanswered every second or third night. When she does take a call, if the other girl cuts her off to speak to someone else, she should leave the call altogether and not call back or pick up again that evening.

What is likely to happen here is that there may be a spectacular falling out when the other girl realises what is happening. Or they may just quietly drift their separate ways with no big drama. But my guess is, when they've had a much needed break from one another they will reconnect again when they are older. Your DD will be a stronger person by then, with a better sense of her own identity. And the other girl may start to appreciate her more for the person she is. At the moment she is bored by her, and just taking her for granted.