Best Friend won't tell her child NO

[Hobblebobbly]

I'm getting frustrated with my best friend as her whole life seems to be dominated by what her 5 year old wants and she never ever tells her no.

I try to avoid meeting up with her with our children because everything is dominated by her older child who seems to demand things all the time and she gives in otherwise she throws massive tantrums. Things like "Tilly wants to go into the café now so we need to go there."
"Tilly wants your child's trike (which I use instead of a pushchair for my youngest) so can she have it now?"
Then she will buy her endless things from machines and shops when we are out which pressures me as my children are allowed to only select one item now and then as the outing is the main treat. My friend just doesn't know how to say no. She's also allowed to skip having a main meal for lunch completely and just have a slice of cake, which I won't allow and then my children complain as they want the same.

She has also told me that her daughter's school have said that her behaviour is sometimes a problem as she won't follow instructions (not surprising). But my friend has convinced herself that all children misbehave at school at her age. I know they don't as I've never had bad reports from school about my two eldest childrens' behaviour.

She also calls me to chat at times and is upset because she's struggling with the chaos of everything and yet, the primary issue is that she needs to stop just doing whatever her child wants to do all the time. Her weekends seem to be governed by her child's demands to go to certain places and do certain things which she's having to juggle with a 2 year old in tow. This is to a point where they will stay out late and bypass bedtime regularly because her daughter "wanted to do X." Her husband is often away on long business trips (which we both suspect he's dragging out unnecessarily) she must find things tough, but when he's home he seems to be the same. There is very little proactive parenting going on at all. I have been quite blunt recently and told her- just tell her no. She seems stumped when I say this and goes quiet and then will change the topic as if she couldn't even consider telling her no.

I'm finding it a bit tricky as we've always been close, I've always loved and respected her but I'm quite flummoxed at her parenting. Mainly because we are both social workers so we have to speak to other parents about parenting etc and she seems to completely grasp that other parents need to have boundaries with their children and healthy patterns. Yet, she isn't doing this with her own child. It's as if self awareness is non-existant. It is affecting my relationship with her because I keep having to make excuses not to meet up with her when she's with the children. Also, I'm not sure what to say to her when she's telling me about how she's finding this tough, other than to say "start saying no."

Any thoughts?

Yeah this sums up parenting today unfortunately.

I would probably respond with gentle parenting also includes boundaries and ask her what she wishes to do to improve the situation. Say its going to be hell at first if she wishes to start this but long term will help dear Tilly and improve home and school life in the long run.

It sounds a lot like she is over compensating and also just trying to survive but this has got her trapped in a cycle.

Absolute rubbish!

When she calls you to complain it might be worth bringing up the material you use in your profession about boundaries etc. ask her how she can apply them to her situation?

This is a good idea.

Maybe ask her what's she's going to do on e her 2 year old starts demanding completely different things. Cut herself in half?

I'd just avoid getting together with the children
It's sad but she turning them into brats and people aren't going to like them. I couldn't be around that and wouldn't want my children influenced by it either.

It's such a shame as that kid will have a rough ride through life. But not your issue to solve.

Just tell her you can't afford to meet up. My mate was similar. When her ds started nursery it was bliss. Prior to that meet ups were her constantly plying him with snacks to make him behave. My dd's looked on in horror. Be a little shit and get treats. His favourite trick was hiding in shops... Quite terrifying.

Never interfere in someone else's parenting. It never ends well. When I had something similar, I would just avoid socialising with that friend if their children were involved. And as for the phone calls, I just didn't entertain those conversations. Would either cut the phone call short with an excuse (there's someone at the door, gotta go) or just go mm-hm, mm-hm, and not discuss.

Otherwise she will drive you to the point where you might say something you regret.

It's odd @Songiii its as if the tools we use with other parents don't apply to her somehow. As if she must be doing it right already because she knows what she's doing. I can't explain it. She doesn't ever complain about her daughter's demands directly its as if she's blaming parenting life in general as if she doesn't realise that she has the power to make her own life easier and that it really isn't like this for everyone.

As a pp said, it will be interesting when the 2 year old starts acting the same way as their older sibling in order to get what they want. When the kids demand different things, I wonder what she’ll end up doing ?

Yanbu to avoid your kids having contact with hers- I would do the same. She is doing her child a massive disservice by always giving in because it’s going to make friendships and future romantic and job relationships difficult too.

Yes I'm worried I might blurt out something I regret too @AmandaHoldensLips so that seems good advice.

@Windymcwindyson it just makes outings stressful for everyone doesn't it when someone else's child keeps misbehaving. Was your friend aware of it? My friend is totally unaware. She even blamed my child once because she wasn't giving her child something she wanted and the item happened to belong to my child. I've even witnessed her take things from other children that didn't belong to her and my friend convinced her to hand it back by promising to buy her the same thing from a nearby shop that day. Seems absurd to me.

She's going to have to learn the hard way. Avoid meeting up with the kids, when she moans about how hard it is change the subject. I don't think trying to educate her is the way forward, she obviously has a blind spot when it comes to her own parenting which is going to be painful if you point it out.

I lost a couple of mates I'd met when we had babies at the same time due to similar issues, their children just weren't pleasant to be around and neither me or my DC enjoyed thier company even though their mums were lovely. It happens.

My mate did appear embarrassed at times.. Her dh was way to strict. To the point her ds would wet his pants. Think she was over compensating. Ltb was a long time coming..

I agree with This! Steer clear in all ways - try and see her without kids and don’t discuss them

She sounds completely overwhelmed to be honest, and in those circumstances it can feel way easier to just say yes to a child rather than deal with the emotional fall-out of setting boundaries etc.
If she were my friend, I guess I would offer an ear for as long as I could… but would probably end up asking if she wanted my opinion from the “outside” and then gently try to say some more boundaries might be helpful. Also sounds like her eldest might have a few issues going on though? So I’d tread carefully.

I think you have different and incompatible parenting styles, so it’s probably time to stop meeting up with your children or else end the friendship altogether.

I have a friend like this. Funnily enough she’s also a SW! I only see her without the kids now.

She is a shit parent! How long until her younger child becomes a brat too? And Christ she has the authority to have an influence over other struggling parents. She needs to be kept far, far away from them and forced to take. parenting course herself!

I avoided meeting up with a friend and her children for years. Her children were older than mine but they were, not to put too fine a point on it, awful. They were rude and entitled and she just let it happen.

Our friendship survived and her children have turned out okay (I think - they've moved away so I haven't seen them for a few years but based on reports). But it probably wouldn't have if we'd spent family time together in the intervening years.

I only meet my friend without her children because they're the exact same.

Her eldest loves to hit/play rough/snatch toys and the response was always do it back to him. Same response when parents at school were complaining to her about his behaviour. They were told to tell their children to do it back. She never speaks to him about his behaviour. She then complains to me he has no friends/not invited to parties/no play dates. No wonder. His behaviour is appalling and he never gets a row for it.

I stopped seeing them when he pushed dd off a wall she was holding my hand and walking on. He wanted in front of her so just pushed her off. I gave him a huge row, she was hurt and my friend told me to get dd to do it back to him. She was 2 and he was 7 at the time.

Your options are telling her that saying no is an option, or backing off and not meeting up with the kids. Either is likely to cool your relationship in different ways. It's a shame, but you can't put up with her kid shoving and bossing yours around.

You won't be able to change the way your mate parents.

Don't give her advice. If she has a badly behaved kid she'll no doubt be getting plenty of it. It will make her sad and defensive.

You can avoid hanging out as a group as definitely you want to hang out with parents with a similar parenting style to you. I have definitely edited my parent-mate group and just hang out with those who have a similar parenting style / boundaries. I still have mates who parent differently, we just see each other without the kids.

Also - just be aware you may not have the full picture of what's going on. When my kid was a toddler I might have come off to others as similar to your mate. If I put down boundaries in public he would throw such EPIC tantrums that the day would be over, he'd make himself sick, he'd smash stuff, and the fallout from that was terrible for me and everyone in the vicinity. I was completely cowed and worn down. I had intended to parent in quite a traditional strict way and it all went out the window. Turns out he's autistic - now he gets the help he needs his behaviour is loads better and everything doesn't need to be on his terms but yeah, there were a few years in which a lot of people distanced themselves from us because he was hard to be around.

Not saying your mate's kid has special needs. Just saying not all kids are the same and your mate may be parenting in the way she has to because of the child she has. Kids aren't a recipe where if you follow the instructions you get a perfect cake. Maybe her kid's hard work because of the lack of boundaries or
maybe she's just a difficult high needs kid and your mate is doing her best.

As I say I don't know one way or another but sometimes helpful just to think of tings from a fresh perspective x

I also have a social worker friend who will let her child do anything she wants to and hardly ever says no.
I just assume because she spends all day with unfit, abusive parents, she's gone way too far the other way.

I think if you are using this post to moan about your friend's really bad parenting style, then I'm here for it. We all like a good moan. However if you are looking for ways to help your friend improve her parenting, I think you need to back off - seeth quietly, by all means (I know I would), but don't share opinions. I think its our own boundaries that we can control. If you don't like to be around her with her child, then just have her as an adult friend. Don't allow your dc to have toys or their wants / needs taken away because your friend doesn't have boundaries with her dc.

Only see het without kids. Do you think she’s trying to be a ‘gentle parent’ without understanding it? Perhaps say to her maybe you need to go back to the basics of food and good bedtime routine or ask her what she would say to a service user in this situation.