How to help DD with overeating habit

[schooloflostsocks]

I’d really welcome some constructive ideas. I have 2 DC.

For context DS 1 is autistic and has a lot of issues with food which mean we need to be pretty adaptive to his needs and we need to feed him what he wants and when he wants it. Also he is now a teenager who needs a lot of carbs and big meals as he’s growing so fast.

DD 2 (10) has always loved food. She has never had the ability to know when she is full and this applies to savoury as well as sweet foods. She gained a lot of weight in the first lockdown due to having lots of food on offer and stopping her dancing classes. We managed to help her grow out of the extra weight to some extent by being more vigilant about portion sizes but in the last year she has put weight on again to the point that she needs plus size clothes. Food and getting as much of it as possible has become a huge focus for her and although she does have hobbies she enjoys she doesn’t want to do the swimming and dancing that she used to do. She has big emotional reactions to being told one portion is enough, no to seconds, no to crisps when we are out and friends’ parents buy them snacks, no to pudding, no to biscuits when offered. If I didn’t keep saying no the problem would be far worse and she would (as she often does if I’m not there) eat enough for at least 2 adults until she was feeling very sick. She does not seem to learn from these experiences.

I substitute for fruit and veg a lot so I don’t have to always say no but somehow she always ends up in places where she can get more food than she needs. I’m a bit lost with how to help her and as someone who was anorexic in my 20s I don’t want to give her that problem to add to her already disordered relationship with food.

Not sure how to help her without causing further issues.

I know the theory that children self regulate if you leave them to work it out. I’m sure many do but mine don’t.

Thank you

Have you spoken to the GP about a referral for a dietician? What is she like in school with portions, most get on fine in school but know they can push things at home more. Definitely look at increasing the exercise, could you walk to and from school? Perhaps get her involved in an after school activity and just have a healthy snack between school and the activity so its really just dinner. The whole family does need to adjust to healthy eating and exercise. Shes 10 so time to change bad habits and get her on the right track

No I haven’t thought of a dietician mostly because the problems are not really with my lack of understanding about what I’m feeding her. I know what a healthy diet for a 10 year old looks like. If I was the only one feeding her there would be no problem and I’d be able to do what I did towards the end of the first lockdown and reduce portion sizes, up the fruit and veg and reduce or cut out sugar and white carbs. It’s more that I’m not always there and she is constantly finding ways to get food when I’m not there. For example she hides sweets that friends have given her- with 30 children having birthdays in the class there are always sweets going round after school. Then there are snacks the kids bring to after school clubs- loads of sweets and crisps going round there, play dates where she eats three helpings of pasta and then has pudding. Annoyingly all her friends seem to eat crap all day and they are all skinny! It feels like the more I try to intervene the more she goes behind my back to eat and that’s creating more problems. It feels like maybe I need a psychologist not a dietician?

I was a little like your DD as a child and my weight ballooned from age 10 and I’ve had a lifelong struggle with my weight and have no body confidence. It didn’t help that my parents made a huge fuss over my eating, calling attention to my weight and calling me fat etc. I was an unhappy child at times and I think that is where the overeating stems from.

See your GP and ask for referral to a paediatric dietitian who can go through a healthy diet and portion sizes with you and DD. Also ask for psychological help as this is where the overeating probably stems from. You may have to pay though for private therapy with the NHS on its knees.

In the meantime I would clear the kitchen cupboards of crappy snack foods - no one in the family needs to be eating crisps, biscuits, white bread and cakes etc. Fill the cupboards with healthier options ie raw nuts, high protein Greek yoghurt, houmous, fruit & vege (but limit fruit to 1-2 portions as it’s full of sugar despite being healthier) etc. Give her plenty of high protein-based meals - the NHS is still in a time warp of telling you to fill up on carbs, which convert to sugar then fat in the body. The dietician may well tell you to fill up on carbs, this science is outdated.

Find an exercise that she enjoys - maybe a different type of dancing to what she used to do? My DC loves Street Dance classes. Focus on the type of exercise that can be fun such as swimming, cycling, dancing, places like Go Ape or Ninja Warrior (budget allowing of course) - any activity that gets you moving.

I think the intervention of both is required tbh.

Sounds like your daughter is overeating for emotional reasons - I’ll eat my hat if it doesn’t start with she has an autistic older brother who probably takes up all of her caregivers’ headspace with his needs and has done for a long time, probably feels less loved, and then oh guess what her mother with a former eating disorder starts calling her fat (doesn’t matter if you’ve said this explicitly, she’ll know what you’re thinking) because she’s a bit chubby heading to puberty (shock horror) and so the cycle begins anew with ever greater fervour.

I don’t mean to be unkind but as a parent with a former eating disorder you are not best placed to deal with this without professional help. You also say that you know what a ten year old should be eating but I’ve seen enough people on here thinking that toast for breakfast and a jacket potato with cheese and beans is a healthy start to the day then wondering why they’re starving in the afternoon. Maybe what give her is fine but I think you need an external check on it. Her friends eating crap and staying skinny either have brilliant genetics or it will catch up to them some day, don’t begrudge her that.

There are a couple of new books out now about emotional eating which might be worth reading.

Of course she doesn’t want to do dancing and swimming anymore because she’s put on weight and is being shamed for it. You need to help her find some activity that she enjoys - hiking, team stuff, anything that she enjoys because that’s the only way to crack it. Needs to be not body centric and focused on making her feel good. She’s a bit young for weight training but boxing springs to mind as a good one for bringing all the mental health benefits and personal development as well as fitness.

So a therapist in short order I’d say.

Your son is autistic so I hope you don't mind me saying that for my DD this is part of her autism. She has poor interroception so she's not as aware of feeling full as most people. Plus she eats for sensory input and has low impulse control. She also mistakes thirst for hunger. At home I locked treat food away from age 8-12 but she is better now at self regulating. I'm quite rigid about 2 sweet things a day and 1 bag of crisps. We're trying to get more active too. She is overweight but it could be worse.

@UnbeatenMum I have an overweight autistic child and was considering locking away the treats. Do you mind me asking if you have any other advice on dealing with never feeling full and encouraging activity?
I really want to tackle it but it's just getting progressively worse and I feel I'm failing him.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Yes @Eigen thats exactly what I fear- that even though I’ve clearly never said she’s fat it’s damaging that I’m constantly saying no you can’t have that and no you can’t have seconds no you can’t have pudding. But how else would I encourage a healthy eating plan even if I had one from a professional? And I suppose I fear taking her to be weighed by a GP (or maybe they’d not do this?) and questioned about diet going to make her anything other than more self conscious about it? And make her think I think she’s got so fat she needs professional help?

we don’t buy unhealthy snacks, we don’t have puddings with meals but they come in almost everywhere she goes including school.

Autistic Ds def doesn’t help but he isn’t particularly high needs in general - he’s quiet and geeky and does his own thing. He will rarely eat what we are eating though and when he does he needs to be given masses more carbs than she does as he won’t eat most protein. I top up his protein intake with milkshakes and eggy pancakes but obviously then she wants some- I usually say no but this is another issue.

DD does have a new active outdoor hobby that I’m hoping is helpful…

I haven’t mentioned DH- he has weight and emotional eating issues too. I accept we need help!! But I hadn’t really figured out what and I couldn’t see that taking her to the GP and announcing she’s overweight I front of her would help her (!) how actually do I manage that?

I’ll give an example of the things I’m up against. This weekend was a pretty typical weekend. Saturday breakfast: 1 scrambled egg with sweetcorn, peas and a home made banana smoothie (probably 2/3 of a banana and some milk- DS had the rest)

Then off to DD’s main hobby which is not outdoors nor particularly active. It’s 4 hours on a Saturday. First break and friend’s mum comes back with delicious cupcakes for all the girls. I don’t feel I can single DD out and say no. She also has some blueberries I’ve given her and various other bits she trades for blueberries- other fruit, malteezers, crisps. She runs off with friends and I leave to take DS to his hobby. I leave her with a packed lunch which is brown rice salad with peas, sweetcorn, feta, cucumber, olives, tomatoes, grated carrot. 2 medjool dates for sweet. Water. When I return at lunchtime she is sharing fries from a friend’s happy meal, another friend’s mum has given her a snickers bar (which she’s already eaten) as a thank you for dd helping hers with homework, and artisan bakery mum is passing round cookies.

later for dinner we have (wholewheat) Mac and cheese with lots of veg and I leave with DS and his friend to go to a thing connected with their geeky hobby. While I’m out DH and Dd decide to bake sourdough and have another late night ‘snack’ of fresh bread and cheese. Apparently they were hungry.

Today she’s gone to a friend’s house this morning. Friend’s mum will have gone to farmer’s market and there will be lots of lovely artisan pastries and fruit on the table. Dd will eat more than she needs…

this afternoon she will go to the new outdoor active hobby.

So my question is- even if we have a diet plan from a professional what do I do, hand it out to all DDs friends and their parents?! Text them all that she is too obese to be offered food? I just don’t know how to control what she s offered and what she accepts and even whether I should

@schooloflostsocks that is a nightmare.
I really don't know how to tackle these things either. I have similar in that my sons school practice life skills so they practice making toast, or pitta pizzas or baking etc so has extra food in the day. If we go to events then there are buffets and he will just eat and eat.

Wow that's a lot of sweets and carbs under her nose! Must be tricky.

Does she struggle to recognise when she's full? Or push on regardless?

Does she eat very quickly?

Make a phone appointment with your GP yourself, and explain her lack of ever feeling full, eating enough for two adults etc. Ask them how to proceed. She obviously does not need to hear this conversation.

Given the info you've given on her weekend meals, she's eating carby crap because she's hungry! There's little protein in her typical meals. The brown rice salad is better, but the repetition of peas and sweetcorn... Dates raise blood sugar. Even the veg you're giving her are carby. After all of that her blood sugars will plummet and she will be hungry.

I think she needs a more balanced approach. Not letting her have the normal foods her friends are being given is making any opportunity to have these appealing. You need to stop giving her what her brother is having which suits him, but doesn't suit her. I'd try adding lean protein to her meals, so chicken, fish, skyr or low fat Greek yoghurt with the blueberries.

Yep this was my first thought, there’s very little protein in there. I was fed something similar as a teenager and was constantly spiking my blood sugar because fruit smoothies, whilst full of nutrients, on their own will just be converted straight into fat after spiking the insulin. She needs more chicken, fish, healthy oils, and green/fibrous veg.

As soon as I went to university and was able to eat high protein and fibre, I was able to keep on top of the hunger and I had very few issues since.

@Wafflefudge she will sometimes have gum or a drink instead of a snack. Also putting a TV in her room has meant she's not in the kitchen with easy access (she doesn't use it after 8.30pm or before everyone else is up). We're working on finding activities she enjoys - this week we did the trampoline park after school. She wouldn't cope with any organised sports or clubs.

OK. I’ve actually never had a GP conversation on someone else’s behalf. Thanks @WristCandy I’ll do that.

The examples I’ve given are really really normal. This week there was a mid week party with a buffet and she’d eaten ALL the crisps and by the end she’d eaten 2 big bits of cream cake too as well as loads of garlic bread, pizza.

@UnbeatenMum yes she may have some autistic traits too but not currently enough to get near a diagnosis

This is very interesting. My DD is 7.5 and can be similar. I particularly recognise the strong emotional reaction to not being allowed to eat something. I have also wondered - for other reasons - if she has autism and problems with interception. She has noooooo idea when she’s full.

So, I’m afraid no advice, but solidarity and watching with interest.

I take the points about protein and too many carbs about me not feeding her enough to feel full. We avoid white carbs as much as possible and Dd is vegetarian which makes protein a bit more challenging. I know she’s going to eat all the other snacks anyway though so I started giving her less. Today she went out without having had breakfast because 1. She doesn’t feel hungry first thing and 2. She’d inevitably end up having 2 breakfasts otherwise

If the mums are friends and you trust them then I perhaps would have a conversation with them to say that I would prefer them not to offer DD too many snacks or particular stuff on play dates.
I mean if she was veggie or Halal/ Kosher or had allergies then you would ask people to respect that (I remember I once had to remove a tonne of cocktail sausages from the plate of a little girl who was Jewish at a party. She didn't know they were made of pork).
As long as they are not mean gossipy mums then I would ask for their help.

I think breakfast needs to be a priority - a high protein breakfast (two eggs, boiled or scrambled) will mean that she’s not spiking her glucose with the stuff that she does eat throughout the day and that will help her take the edge off. Toast and a smoothie is not a healthy breakfast, one egg is not enough. I actually really suspect if you can get more protein into her, she’ll start to regulate a bit better as it’s extremely hard to overeat on a high protein/high fibre diet.

Check out the glucose goddess - I don’t agree with absolutely everything she says but she demonstrates how easy it is to unbalance your blood sugar and how modern dietary advice is actively unhelpful, and especially for young women with hormonal development (e.g. just before your period, the same meal will spike your insulin 50% more than after your period, making it even more important to make good choices).

I empathise as you are really up against it in the modern world because it is very hard to avoid the fact that everything that isn’t cooked from scratch is full of sugar and processed crap, and the quality of our fresh produce is noticeably and demonstrably worse than even 5 years ago. There’s a book called Why We Eat Too Much that talks about this.

You could split a sweet snack with your daughter so she still has a bit and doesn’t feel left out (“sweets are a treat because they are not as healthy for us as other foods and don’t help us feel full, so let’s just share a bit together so that we don’t feel grumpy later”) and follow it up/pre load with some veggies beforehand to get the fibre in.

I’m speaking as a former ‘girl who eats a lot’ even though I was never overweight and even now as an active and healthy size 10 I still have to actively challenge the messaging that I am eating ‘too much’. Turns out I just had a shit load more muscle than most girls my age from dancing a lot and genetics.

@Eigen this is helpful. I’ll try upping the protein and see if that helps her regulate.

The mums who are friends don’t really get it as their own DC eat whatever they want and don’t put on weight. I also think it’s hard for anyone to deny or limit guests’ food. One of her friends’ mums has no boundaries over food at all and when her daughter comes over she will just raid my freezer for ice cream without asking. Her mum is lovely but she can’t say no!

what I’m worried about is that I think DD is starting to choose her friends and extra curricular activities based on the availability of food. I think you are right I do need to make sure she feels full at home irrespective of what might be on offer when she goes out. I genuinely don’t think it will mean she’ll eat less when out, based on previous experience but I don’t want her developing the idea that she needs to go elsewhere to get food.

I’ve learned the word interception on this thread.

thanks for all your thoughts and solidarity

Any good ideas for high protein veggie meals and packed lunches?

I already do tofu scramble, air fried tofu nuggets (like chicken nuggets), eggs in lots of forms, feta, halloumi. I do a dessert with silken tofu and melted dark chocolate. She likes nuts, we sometimes do a cashew roast but I think that’s actually quite carby… we do veggie toad in the hole or sausages and baked beans. Our other meals are all more carb based such as pizza (wholemeal dough made from scratch) pasta (wholemeal) and rice. She loves sushi, we make that once a week but that’s mostly white rice. I always do an omelette with that.

We already use the lovely Lidl Greek yogurt as someone suggested earlier with fruit and nuts for a lightish snack.

I make flapjacks with almond butter and only sweetened with whizzed up date and raisin paste.

more ideas always welcome

@ThePure Yes I have spoken to a couple of other parents. It hasn’t helped really ajd anyway I think it’s quite different telling people you’re Jewish or you have a medical allergy rather than ‘I think my daughter is too overweight to eat the snacks you’re kindly offering her’ which is much harder to word nicely?

I have similar issues with DD who is now 19 and has SEN which complicates matters.

You've been given a lot of great sensible advice already so perhaps I can give you some suggestions that aren't quite so sensible but worked for DD.

1. The greatest thing I did was encouraging DD to start having hot drinks and think of it as a treat eg a funky flavoured tea or a cappuccino or a low calorie hot chocolate. Yes, it's nutritionally crap BUT I realised DD just wanted to consume something often, so better a cup of tea than a packet of crisps.

2. once she was older I made sure she had a decent big lunch to fill her up and often dinner could be something very small - 2 full meals aren't always necessary. Similarly at the weekends and holidays if she had a lie-in then we skipped breakfast and had an early lunch.

3. we always have low fat ice cream, low calorie jelly, boiled sweets and marshmallow flumps in the house! DD likes sweet treats so I'd rather she has a little of these than bars of chocolate and cakes.

4. every meal she has starts with veg, loads of it, 3/4 of the plate is veg so she will feel full. She wants to have big portions and feel full so this is our solution. Even roasted veg is better than rice/pasta/potatoes.

Finally, you have to get DH onboard too. He can't make bread with her for a fun snack ffs. No desserts and treats in the house, she can't feel like she is excluded from food. If DS needs extra then it can go in his room (DS has his own attaché of food upstairs that DD never sees him eat).

I personally think that it IS a medical issue and that it's our society's messed up views about weight and appearance that mean it isn't treated as such when it should be

I think it's weird when peoples preferences for vegetarian or vegan food are given more credence and respect than someone trying to tackle what is actually a recognised health issue of childhood obesity.

I think you could word it as a medical issue
and just say that you have been medically advised that DD needs to eat a low carb high protein diet. If shes 10 will they not be sending out the government child weight monitoring scheme results soon? That was literally instituted to help parents recognise a medical
Issue with their child's weight so can it be such a bad thing that you are recognising it and trying to act? Otherwise she'll just have to develop a gluten intolerance and a dairy allergy. (This is a strategy that has worked for my MIL to excuse her own disordered eating for 40+ years)