To expect nursery to spoon feed?

[Bibbidybobbidyroo]

DD 3.5 attends private nursery full time largely without issue. She is on the ASD pathway for diagnosis driven by her sound sensitivity and speech delay.

She’s having a rough time readjusting back after Christmas compounded by how her sensory sound issues are always at a peak this time of year.

I went to collect her last night and she looked absolutely done in. I asked if she had eaten as she had skipped a few meals last week and they said no. Skipped all three meals plus snacks. They said “she wants us to spoon feed her”.

DD has often needed support during meal times - normally just someone sat near her. In the previous room they would keep trying all day including taking her to a quiet room with something like a yoghurt or some toast but obviously now the ratio is bigger in the preschool room.

I am really upset that they think it’s ok for a child not to eat for nine hours without either

spoon feeding her something
or
calling me to let me know so I can come and collect her early and bring food with me.

Am I expecting too much for a level of common sense to be used here?

I’ve been pushing them hard to apply for inclusion funding etc to help perhaps bring in some extra support for her at meal times but they are being quite slow.

what would you do here?

(please don’t suggest a childminder as that would not work for her).

thanks!

Does your daughter usually need spoon feeding? Does she struggle due to the other issues she is struggling with in regards to potential ASD diagnosis?

Is she spoon fed at home?

If this is the first time it's happened I would discuss what you want to happen if it happens again - eg. Call me and I'll get her.

I wouldn't expect them to spoon feed a child of that age. I would don't they have the time to do this and if they do it for one then other children may seat asking to be spoon fed. If this is an issue for your DD could you arrange to go in during your lunch period and help to feed her somewhere quieter within the nursery setting?

Do you spoon feed her at home and is this something nursery have done before? To be honest I would think spoon feeding is likely to cause more issues with encouraging her to eat.

I don’t know the legalities but I can understand the nursery not having the time or staffing numbers for this but it’s not ok your child isn’t eating all day.

I know you say a childminder is not an option but this may not be the right provision for your child. She maybe needs a smaller nursery with higher ratios (easier said than done I know). A lot of preschool room is about getting them ready for school and fostering independence. I think you need to look for a different setting.

Are you sure she hasn’t stopped eating because of the stress and unfamiliarity? My dd, also ASD would not eat any of nurseries food, no matter what it was at a similar age. We had to bring in food from home that she recognised. As she is 3.5, assuming she has the motor skills, I would be trying to find a way that she was able to feed herself in nursery - just in terms of helping with the transition to school and encouraging her to learn skills.

Thanks all.

to answer questions:

yes she can eat independently and only occasionally does she hand lead one of our hands to her mouth for food at home. We always lead my example and redirect the behaviour at home but it seems more common at nursery when she’s stressed/anxious etc.

I understand the issues with staffing but I guess I am frustrated as this isn’t new behaviour for her and nursery have had lots of time to source extra provision.

a childminder isn’t appropriate as one of her sensory issues with noise is the sound of babies and small toddlers.

I have started to look at smaller nurseries in the area as the one she is at is large - we thought this would help with school readiness where the years are often 3/4 sets of children per year.

Would taking in packed lunch help?

Ratios are 8 children per 1 adult so I don't think they could spoon feed a child very easily without causing a lack of supervision elsewhere. Ime they don't have extra staff at meal times as some are dealing with the children , others helping get the food out and dirty plates away etc.

It's really hard for your child though and so I really feel for her. Maybe you should move this post to the specialist boards on here and see if they have any tips?

It isn’t as easy as saying a child needs funding, there are very lengthy and difficult processes to follow.

Have you started the ball rolling for an EHC? And will nursery support you with that?

I would start sending a packed lunch/snacks in the your dd sees you making and hopefully the familiarity of that will encourage her to eat.

'Nursery have had lots of time to source extra provision'

Do you mean additional staff?

If so, have you been working with the nursery to apply for additional high needs funding from your Local Authority?

Budgets and ratios are very tight in settings.

How often does this issue come up?

Has the nursery talked to you about applying for an EHCP?

I suggest you ask your question on the SEND boards here.

Yes that’s all in process with support from nursery. I’ve asked them to apply for inclusion funding in the meantime as well as having the LA inclusion officer come and observe her but I feel like I have to constantly chase to get anything to happen.

It’s not their food that’s the issue - she often has second helpings of everything while she’s there. This isn’t regular behaviour for her but seems to spike during times of extra anxiety and sensory stress so we are seeing it atm post Christmas break. It’s a pattern now for sure. She was like this last January too.

I think as she is capable of feeding herself then you are being unreasonable. If they start spoon feeding her it can easily become a pattern that would hold her back.

make sure she has foods she likes and that she can easily feed herself. If she wants to eat she will otherwise she can eat when she gets home. They can’t force her to eat.

It’s not their food that’s the issue - she often has second helpings of everything while she’s there. This isn’t regular behaviour for her but seems to spike during times of extra anxiety and sensory stress so we are seeing it atm post Christmas break. It’s a pattern now for sure. She was like this last January too.

If it is a pattern then surely continuing to encourage her to eat independently and not spoon feeding her is the most sensible plan for everyone involved including your daughter. If she knows they will spoon feed her then realistically she's unlikely to go back to feeding herself once she knows that's an option.

They’re not going to have the time or staff available in the preschool room to spoon feed her. You say you’ve asked for them to apply for funding but these things take a lot of time and may not come in for months. The nursery wouldn’t be able to afford to pay for it themselves either.

That is awful. In the meantime you could phone to check on her and see if she has eaten during the day until the issue is resolved.

I'd ask for a meeting about it. On the one hand, they can't supervise one child that closely (what if another child choked etc, they have a duty of care to all) but equally she shouldn't go all day without eating.

Could you make a plan where you're notified if she doesn't eat and can go in?

If it’s not regular behaviour then encouraging independent feeding is the way forward. I understand autism and eating is a very difficult and stressful time, but even if she doesn’t eat all day it won’t cause any harm. Make sure you have high calorie snacks when you pick up and make sure she has a good dinner and snack before bed to replace the calories if she has a no eating day.

Will she drink a high calorie milkshake like complan while she’s at nursery if she’s having a rough day and won’t eat? That way she still get nutrition but there’s no pressure on her.

You would need a nanny for that one on one care needed

Thanks all. I wrote in my OP I understand it’s a ratio issue but I think I’m more annoyed that they didn’t think to call me.

No you do not.

That’s a great idea for the milkshake. She also loves a high protein yoghurt so I think I will ask if I can bring those in for when this happens.

Have you made it clear to them they can call you for things like this?

I've worked in a nursery and there are plenty of parents who would have complained if they had been contacted simply because their child hadn't eaten.

If she's largely without issue then it seems unlikely she's going to ever get 1 to 1 funding. Which would be the only way someone would be available to spoon feed her. She needs encouragement to feed herself which she's clearly capable of doing. They can't force her to eat though

I often think the parents must be the worst part of working in a nursery 😂

Yea I’ve been really clear that I prefer to be contacted e.g if she has a random nap I like to know. If DD has had a bad nights sleep I always tell them to call me if she starts to struggle so I can collect her.

I have a good relationship with the nursery - I don’t expect them to mind reaf but the communication from their end can be poor.