Please help me with my unruly kids, I can't cope anymore

[xxxJess123xxx]

hi all my kids are just turned 8 and just turned 5, oldest girl and youngest boy.

their behaviour is actually driving me to depression and I genuinely cannot cope.
it starts from the moment they wake. DD won't get out of bed, dressed, teeth you name it, so won't do it. iv tried numerous punishments and it works for an hour then back to square one. She can be rude, defiant and answers back. Pushes the boundaries constantly. Talks in an annoying deep loud voice (purposely) when over excited, which is constantly.
Is apparently an angel at school and doing well in all areas, excelling actually so its obviously just me.

DS is an absolute nightmare. Taking him to the shops sees him run off, pick things up from the shelves, not listen, I tell him off or hold him hand so you throws himself around/on the floor and screams blue murder. I have had people tut and huff and stare at me which is actually soul destroying.
Indoors he runs full pelt everywhere, does front flips on the sofa, is so loud and doesn't listen to a word I say. Again I have tried all sorts of punishments, time out in room, taking toys away, taking weekend screen time away (not allowed any Monday to Friday as makes behaviour 10x worse) but again nothing works.
I have even tried the over the top love bombing parenting but it only works for a short time and it just back fires in my face.

Together, they fight constantly, with hitting, kicking, shoving and slamming doors in faces. Just before bed is the worse, with them genuinely acting possessed running and fighting.

No one wants to come round and see me.
I hate taking them anywhere
I hate being at home.
im so embarrassed by how much I have failed as a parent.
I just feel like I am slowly loosing my mind.
I have a husband, he works long hours. I work school hours. They behave the exact same for him.

Im so sorry for the essay and writing it all on here but I don't know how to carry on xx

That sounds really difficult, I’m sorry. I don’t have any practical advice but hopefully someone else can offer some. I hope that things get better.

I hate to be that person with THAT comment.. but has DS been checked for ADHD ect? He sounds super hyperactive.

DD sounds like she’s just avoiding hyper active brother tbh, all the tiger stuff sounds serious normal for an 8 year old girls, her hormones are probably just starting to come into play.

Thirty, no he hasn't been checked and tbh, the wait is so long im kind of already dishearted to try as I know it would be years and its like false hope if you know what I mean?
He has so much energy and is so naughty but again, perfect at school x

Sorry if I'm way off but I can see mentioning of punishment and negative consequences in your post but not much about praise, positive reinforcement etc. Do you do lots of this? For many kids it is absolutely amazing how impactful it is. Also, treating them as if they are e.g. really sensible, giving responsibilities etc e.g. 'there's my sensible boy!' Letting them hear you talk about how good they are e.g. telling someone 'X was so kind to her little brother today and was just an angel helping me lay the table'. If I'm patronising you here and you already do that stuff then ignore me as there could be other issues at play. But those are just some things that worked for me a lot as a teacher with tricky kids sometimes. (I am a parent but only of a baby.)

How many sports does your ds do outside school. Some people basically need exercising daily like dogs. (I do!)

Find him a swimming club. (Google “Michael Phelps ADHD”.) Take him to a field and get him to run and shout. Get a trampoline. You need to work off that energy every single day.

PS: Something schools often do a lot as well as lots of praise is super clear boundaries and instructions, which again you may already do, but worth really emphasising that. If he's good at school it may be worth copying what they do!

I would recommend a really clear daily routine. First I'd look at what time the kids get up and go to bed - if dd can't get up in the morning then she needs to go to bed earlier. Your ds needs opportunities to burn off some of that energy - build that into the routine. Make sure the time before bed time there is something calming for them to do, bath and or a story. Play games with them - the five year old is old enough now to learn to take turns and play, the more you can keep them occupied the less time they will have to be bored and mess around.

You have to be really consistent it takes a lot of effort and planning - but when everything is calmer and they know the routine and so everything goes so much more smoothly it is worth it.

thank you for your replies, to answer some questions
Brook, yes I have tried "love bombing" parenting but it doesn't work. The second I have to turn my back they are mental again or fighting. I also give consequences and warning etc, "Please don't throw that toy, if you do, I will need to take it away as it can hurt someone" THROW, take it off them.

Mumofteen DD does Art Club and DS does football. We are in a flat with no garden so a trampoline wouldn't work, that would be perfect for energy.

itsmy yes they have a daily routine. DS wakes easy to start bombing about much to the displease of my downstairs neighbours (flat). I start trying to wake DD at 7am

They both share a room and go to bed at 8, asleep at 8.30pm and no wake ups

I play games with them, board games. DS will sit and play but has to flip or run about after every turn but I persist and they enjoy it. but the second it goes away, it's murder again. I cannot describe how crazy they go, its nuts.

I find having a consequence and absolutely sticking to it works quite well. Don't ever back down and make sure it's something that they care about (so you say you take away a specific toy they're throwing, but they may not care because they'll just fine another one).

Even my 14 year old (who is pretty good on the whole) was really rude and refused to do what I'd asked her the other day, so I refused to take her to her hobby. She didn't believe I would follow through, but I did, and it showed her I was serious.

For your son, if he refuses to walk nicely outside, I would buy a wrist strap )that attached to your wrist) and tell him he will have to wear it until he can learn to walk nicely and not run off like a toddler.

And definitely reward charts,.and again remember to follow through with the rewards.

But mostly just always, always be consistent! If you make a threat, make sure you follow through, otherwise they'll just know they're empty threats and won't ever take you seriously. Make a plan with your DH and make sure you're on the same page.

Have you tried roaring, "DO NOT THROW THAT TOY!" instead of, "Please do not throw that toy. If you do, I will take x,y,z..."

You're actually asking them not to do something, not telling them, and maybe they think they have a choice. You're reinforcing g that notion when you continue to the consequence. Clearly, the kids are weighing the consequence against the short term benefit of throwing the toy, and the consequence is losing out. They've decided you're a wimp.

Make them guess what the consequence is. Make sure it's you going ballistic and maybe a toy or two going to the bin.

Not all bad home behaviour is due to autism/ ADHD, etc. Some is due to strong willed kids not coming up against a really hard surface against which to butt heads.

Let your DD wake up whenever she pleases, and she can be late for school if she doesn't wake in time.

Both kids need to be put to work to give them a sense of self-worth - chores need to be assigned and supervised, and some sort of reward system set up for performance. At age 8 your daughter could be doing her own laundry as well as making her own bed, helping to dust and polish and hoover, and your 5 yo should be making his bed, tidying up his toys, helping with tidying living room and hallway, and both should be helping to load and unload the dishwasher, helping with food prep, setting and clearing the table, helping to put groceries away, helping to clear up after meals.

Do not start reward charts for basic elements of life like getting out of bed in the morning or brushing teeth, or civil indoor behaviour at home or in the supermarket.

OP have you tried a reward chart?

Hey OP,
Sounds like you have tried a lot of strategies and they just aren't working.
I don't know where you live but there may be a service near you called Early Help (or similar).

It tends to be run by your local children's services but no social workers involved.
You can call them, explain the situation and ask for support.

You would then be allocated an EH worker who will chat to you and support you with the children. They will give you their work number etc so you can contact if everything gets a bit overwhelming.

May be worth giving it a shot, it's consent based so can withdraw whenever you want to and it won't matter.

Good luck OP

Hello, I would suggest separating them at bedtime. I had to do this for mine around those ages. End of the day is the worst time as they are both tired and tetchy and don't want to do what you are telling them. Send one up to bed first so that they aren't in the bathroom together.

Why doesn't your DD want to get up? Is she tired, or does she not want to go to school? With my DS I go for patient, persistent encouragement. I don't get mad I just keep on saying - I know it's tough but you need to get up now. I work on the basis that I am more persistent than they are, so if I persevere they will eventually crack!

mathanxiety, I have tried going ballistic yes, screamed at them and thrown toys in the bin. Hour long tantrum and I havnt given in. One thing I do is never give in and give something back or not follow through a consequence .

I will not be leaving her to wake when she pleases and be late for school.

Sol, she doesn't want to get up as she is tired. She loves school and when she is all ready, she is happy to be going.

I will look into Early Help

xx

I think there is a lot of negativity, punishment and shouting in your home.

It sounds like all 3 of you bounce off each other. Your DC know what buttons to press to get an reaction from you.

I think every parent has phases of this as DC grow and change.

Firstly remember the time old saying: pick your battles. Decide what is important: not jumping on furniture, going bed on time & getting ready in the morning.... for example.
Shouting at each other isn't that dramatic, if you can't separate them as suggested, just ignore (difficult I know) as long as there isn't blood or broken bones. (I used to say the survivor has to clean up the mess!)

Secondly try and stay calm, check your emotions. DC do pick up on the pitch of your voice. So work towards a calm & assertive voice & body language before addressing behaviour.

For the morning routine with your DD I suggest an egg timer. Wake her up and set to say 45 minutes and let her know this is the time she has to get up and ready for breakfast. Its giving her independence, and some privacy to get ready. This worked for both my DC at around 7/8 and took out all the morning shouting, fighting & stress. It will also give you time to get DS ready in a calmer way.

For your very lively DS, I suggest taking him out to the park/ playground after school to let off some steam. My DS was just like yours, never sitting down, always on the go... and he still is!
It can feel relentless, but that's who he is- better to give him an outlet than trying to supress it!

And one last thing: I always told DC about the next day either at dinner time or bed time. Especially when things were difficult and heated. That could be little things like you are having Nutella sandwiches for lunch or burgers for dinner or just we can't go park after school as DD has dance class.

Dance floor, of course there is shouting and negativity, they are driving me to insanity.
its all well and good saying pick your battles and let them run and shout but I have downstairs neighbours who don’t appreciate the noise and I can’t blame them

My DS is reasonably well behaved (I say reasonably - he is 3!) but this Have you tried roaring, "DO NOT THROW THAT TOY!" instead of, "Please do not throw that toy. If you do, I will take x,y,z..." is not good advice IMO. It would amuse strong characters and terrify meeker souls

It must be hard living in a flat with no outside space. Can you take them to the park at teatime to burn off some energy? I know it’s dark early at the moment but you will be able to soon.

I have ‘naughty’ children but they were even worse in school so there were referrals very early on. I took my dc to the GP age 3 and 4 as there were concerns and they were referred to camhs and now have diagnoses of a behavioural condition.

Are they worse together? Can you and your husband do things separately with them from time to time?

I'm guessing your environment is adding to the stress ie living in a flat. If you are having to be conscious of noise all the time it will make you tense straight away.

When my ds was younger he literally needed to be treated as a dog (awful as that sounds) with exercise 2/3 times a day. Shops / walking along the pavement next to cars was a no, but large parks, bike rides in woods and swimming were good. He also did gymnastics.

It great that they do behave at school, you have clearly brought them up to be well mannered and respectful (even if they don't show you this at home).

Most areas run parenting Classes. Don't be afraid of these, they are there to help. And if nothing else you get to meet people who don't judge you and you won't feel so alone.

There are some positives in what you say - they are good in school and they sleep all night!

Apply for child DLA if things are this bad. Sorry you are having a difficult time. My 6yo has daily meltdowns and we are in this perpetual cycle daily, can't get away from the situation. I am outdoors with the youngest two as much as possible to cope. Wide. Open. Spaces.

Yep, same here, apparently DC is perfect at school. Not sure what the answer is.

I would recommend Solihull Parenting Approach online course. I learned a few great tips from the this course but there are probably other similar courses to try.