Advice on seeing child

[Justadad95]

Hey 7 weeks ago myself and partner split. I was still seeing my son daily up until Saturday just gone when It turned out she up’d and left with him to her dads 30 miles away.
today I went to visit son which was pre-arranged and agreed however on arrival non of her family would answer there phones or answer the door after a few minutes the police arrived to my shock. Turns out they rang the police and made out they had no idea I was coming to see my 7 year old son. Police said it was a civil matter and rightfully so.
i spoke to my son on the phone and he kept asking if I can come back up and see him (I could hear her family laughing in the background about it all) it got to the point my 7 year old said to his mum ‘you’re so spiteful I want see my dad and you won’t let me’
i know I can go via courts ect but that takes time. Yes I have parental responsibility.
i have read that legally she can not prevent me from seeing my son as there is no court order but putting that into practice is just impossible.
so what are my options? Can I legally walk into her father’s house, pick him up and leave with him?
I’ve been a hands on dad throughout his entire life I work nights but still did the daily school runs ect. I was also the only one to spend quality time with him daily also.
im just at a loss on what I can do in the meantime. It is worth noting that shes severely depressed at the moment has attempted suicide one recently and I have text messages where she’s said I can 1) have full custody and 2) she’s still suicidal now
Thanks.

I'd go to a solicitor.

No you can't just walk into someone's house

I already will be doing first thing Monday morning but just want advice on my what I can do in the meantime. As courts ect is a lengthy process.

No you can't just walk into to someone's house and kidnap a child, even if that child is yours. He's with his DM and he's safe.

You need a Child Arrangements Order.

Considering there is no court order in place, you can pick up your child and take them into your care as you have PR. However, this would really apply to things like collecting him from school etc. You can't walk into someone's house to get your child as you would then be breaking other laws which would not go well for you if this went to court. You also need to think about the impact upon your child if you did that. Would it be nice for him to see his mum shouting and screaming, trying to grab him and take him back? It would be hugely traumatic for him.

Having been through this multiple times myself with my husband and his son, I would suggest that you obtain advice from a solicitor. If you can't afford a solicitor, there are numerous books to guide you through the process, such as "The Family Court without a Lawyer" by barrister Lucy Reed.

Before making an application to court, you would need to attend a Mediation Information and Assessment Meeting (MIAM) with a qualified and registered mediator. You don't have to actually engage in mediation but it would go in your favour if you attempted it as the courts usually direct this to happen anyway. If mediation breaks down or you don't wish to take part, they sign a form and then you can apply to court. There are some exemptions where you don't have to go through this stage though.

You can apply to court without a solicitor on form C100 and if you have low income, you can also apply for fee remission on form EX360. You would likely be looking at around 6 weeks until the first hearing which would only be a directions type hearing if there is no agreement.

I would advise to do everything by the book as the last thing the courts want to see if parents putting the kids in the middle of these conflicts.

It wouldn't be considered kidnap as he is the father and has PR. However walking into someone's house is another issue.

From my own research as I’ve been up all night looking into court orders ect. i Just want clarity on that one thing as from everything I’ve read it only counts as trespass and not burglary or anything like that as I’m not doing it for the intention to steal or cause bodily harm.
my main concern is that she said even yesterday that’s she still wanting to commit suicide. So how safe is he really? Her dad is also incredibly ill he has chronic COPD and currently has Pneumonia.
I did also forget to add that while I was there my child rang and said ‘dad mums ringing the police and I’m scared there going to take you away’

If you are genuinely concerned about mums mental health I would phone the non emergancy police number or the NHS 111 and ask them about sectioning. It is not something to be done lightly or as a weapon as part of a messy separation though and will impact your child so you'd have to think really carefully if you wanted to go down that route.

@Justadad95 Do you have it in writing that she wants to commit suicide? There is the option of speaking to social services for advice and explaining your concerns regarding the safety of your child.

The law regarding entering someone's house is not clear even to police officers. I had someone try it once with me (nothing to do with a child) and one set of officers said it's trespass and another said he would have arrested her on the spot as it's a criminal offence so it's just not worth it. The only time I would consider it to be justified would be if your child was in imminent danger.

And no you shouldn't commit a crime and trespass. Do it legally or it will bite you.

Completely agree. It will not go in OPs favour.

No I completely understand that and for the most part is was genuinely just a question and yes I have it in writing. The police also recommended I get social services involved due to her mental health however I am two minds as in my perspective that’s a serious escalation and due to her mental health I’m trying to not cause anything that would tip her further into depression and attempt another suicide

You can apply to court without a solicitor on form C100 and if you have low income, you can also apply for fee remission on form EX360. You would likely be looking at around 6 weeks until the first hearing which would only be a directions type hearing if there is no agreement

Very good advice from this poster but it's an EX160, not a EX3600*

If you genuinely think she is a risk to your son you must put him first. But yes it isn't an easy decision.

Sorry, it's been a while since I've used those forms 😂

I understand but wouldn't going and taking your child potentially push her over the edge? I think there needs to be agencies involved here for support and to ensure your child is safe and cared for.

Yeah from ive read there is a lot of forms for a lot of different things and for the most part its very confusing. I have always put him first and will continue do so and it’s definitely not an easy decision on social services as I would be riddled with guilt if she then was to take her own life because of it.

It's not that confusing. You just need to apply using a C100 and an EX160 if you're in benefits or a low income. Otherwise you need to pay for the application.

You can apply for the C100 online here.

The difference is in my care I would allow any and all access for her. I understand her mental health is playing a big part in her actions however a 7 year old shouldn’t be ringing his father saying what he said and he also shouldn’t be put into a position where he is calling his mum spiteful because he wants to see his dad. It’s tricky however would that be classed as emotional abuse towards my child? I’ve never been through anything like this so I’m very conflicted on how to proceed in the meantime as I have a very good relationship with my son and he has said multiple times he wants to stay with me and not his mother

OP, if she is that unstable, keep talking to her calmly, by email or messenger. In writing, timed and dated, so you can prove you have been calm and reasonable while consistently trying to see your child. And at the same time, apply to the courts.

And she may agree, once the thrill of hurting you is over, and she gets bored.

Is your child returning to school? Where? Will she prevent your dc from doing so? Another reason for the court to return him to you.

So no he will not be returning to school she has made that clear that for the foreseeable future she won’t be travelling 30 miles a day just to take him to school. What’s a dc? I don’t know any of these terms.
I don’t know if it makes a difference but my son does have a rare immune condition and we was only living where was as it’s close to the only hospital equipped for his condition. Now she is where she is if anything was to happen regarding his condition it’s now an extra 1 hour 20 min drive to that hospital

DC = Dear Child.

I would be getting social services involved. Your child needs schooling.

I agree and as it’s the weekend I have just completed the online referral for my local social services. I honestly just want what’s best for him but I also want her to work on getting better so she can be a great mum.
I do offer that I have ‘temporary residence’ for him while she worked on that but was told no from her

If mum is stopping your child from seeing you when he wants to see you, and when there are no safeguarding issues involved, then yes I would consider it emotional abuse.

There are no safeguarding issues. Even the police said they are confused on why she did that as it’s clear to them there isn’t and has never been any issues regarding me and our son. Was genuinely just a normal everyday family up until 7 weeks ago.

I think you have a strong case here to, at the very least, get more contact with your son. You have the issue of mums mental health, threatening suicide while caring for your son, not taking him to school and moving him away from the hospital that he needs to be near.