Shouty parenting

[MummySS22]

I'm really not a shouty person or aggressive. Its not really in my nature. I'm usually quite calm and collected. But just recently my toddler has been pushing my buttons. He does the exact opposite of things I tell him not to do. Constantly touching things he knows he's not supposed to do. A simple "No, please done do that" is not suffice as he looks at me, laughs and carries on. I find myself spending the whole day bellowing "NOOOO" at the top of my lungs because it seems to be the only way he will listen to me. He is plain ignorant and honestly it must be genetic because his dad is just the same. I feel like a.horrible shouty parent because I spend all my time telling him off. Anyone else? Or even some advice how I can get him to listen to me? He is 20 months so any advice that is age appropriate. He spends the whole day beating me up and wrecking my house. Which I know he's exploring but he literally breaks everything! And I'm getting sick of the sound of my own voice. Neighbours will prob report me to social and this rate for always shouting 🙄

Such a tough age as they want to explore everything! My 20 month old son is exactly the same! But try not to think of it as he's being ignorant or naughty or it's genetic.. it's absolutely completely normal. Annoying, yes!! But totally normal. They have no impulse control and so even if we think they know not to do something or we're saying don't do that it's not enough to stop their impulses. Same as you, a simple no isn't enough and I do end up raising my voice to make the no clearer for when safety is involved or he's about to break something. Distraction works quite well for us and humour too. Gentle parenting techniques are really useful for this kind of thing and reading up on those have helped me loads.

Ignorant? Genetic?

He's behaving in a completely normal way for a toddler and he needs you to set boundaries. Screaming "NO" at him isn't going to work. He'll either become desensitised to it and just tune you out or he'll see it as a fun game to wind you up and watch you pop. I imagine he thinks you look hilarious, eyes bulging and bellowing.

If you get out of control he will too which is why he's lashing out at you. You need to calm down and keep firm boundaries with him. Tell him in simple, age appropriate ways what is happening and enforce consequences when he doesn't listen. Don't waffle on at him, just keep it simple and act on it.

Throwing toys for example. "The blocks are not for throwing you could hurt someone, they're for building like this." then sit and build with him and give him some of your time. "If you want to throw we can play a game of throwing teddies onto the bed". If he continues to throw blocks around say calmly but firmly "I see you don't want to build anything just now. We'll put the blocks away until you are ready to build something and not throw them." Then pack them in the box and put them away in a cupboard. Next time you bring the blocks out start straight away with "let's build something nice with these blocks" and give him some of your time where you model playing nicely with them.

My 2 year old was recently climbing on a toy that I told him he can't climb on. It will definitely break. I showed him by pushing on it that it was bending and will snap. He continued to do it so I told him it was going away as he was not ready to play with it without climbing on it.

Another example of not sitting in his seat at dinner time. "We sit on our bottoms to eat at the table" and return him every time. When it becomes a silly game and I feel my blood boiling. "You're not ready to sit and eat at the table so you can leave for now". I put him outside the kitchen stair gate where I know he's safe as everything is well toddler-proofed and I can still see and hear him. We continue our meal. He wanted his dinner so he was allowed back in and he sat nicely. He knew I would put him out again every time if he didn't listen.

I would also make your home as toddler proof as it can possibly be to minimise how often you need to say no to him.

you are asking for tips to control your child. That kind of controlling behaviour is getting out of fashion a bit more nowadays. But there's all the traditional obedience tools like time out and snacking and other punishment

How about you start listening to him first? then he might consider listening back

Yelling NO at a toddler is about the worst thing you can do. Calling your own child ignorant? WTF! Just redirect him. Give him something else to do. I say "uh-uh" firmly but gently. No is the worst word to use, that is going to come back to bite you. Maybe hold back on comparing him to his dad in a negative way too, that's going to be really damaging.

Try to watch your own feelings and reactions we tend to react worse when we tag all the things the toddler does together rather than dealing with each one individually. Be consistent if he's messing with something remove it. Ignore tantrums as much as possible and when you are telling him try to speak calmly and not give more attention than necessary. Lots of positive attention we have a habit of ignoring our children when they are behaving and just enjoying the peace. But it gives the wrong impression you want him to learn good behaviour is rewarded bad behaviour is not.

And don't beat yourself up it's really not easy

I am happy to admit I found 20 months to roughly two and a half extremely challenging. DS woke very early and so the days seemed never ending. I feel pretty bad admitting this but I had Thursdays and Fridays with him alone and I used to feel a certain amount of dread on Wednesday evening, I just didn’t enjoy it much. And I had panicked moments that my poor parenting meant that he was out of control, that other parents set a boundary and it was adhered to, etc.

Honestly, it’s just a tricky age. The example above with the stair gate and the dinner table would have just caused so much stress and resulted in no one eating much here, for instance. Mine also went through a stage of switching the TV off at the wall and throwing books off the bookcase.

Mine is now just turned three and it’s so much easier. We have moments - his verbal skills are good now so I get lots of NO and arguing back and so on, but the stage of purposefully destroying things has passed, the early wake ups have gone thank god and he’s mostly fairly easyish. I honestly think for the 18 month - 2 and a half year it’s just about survival. I now have it to look forward to again as have another baby but she is only five months and she will never destroy anything or be cheeky or rude or shove another child or snatch a toy …

Children learn by touch, exploring and experimenting. He is not ignorant and your comment displays your gap in knowledge about toddler development.

I would recommend a few things, brush up on child development. A book or parenting course. Really work on your attitude to a toddler and his father. Remember your son is part his father and your attitude will store up issues for your son.

And quite frankly engage him away from the things he can't touch and put what you can away.

Most importantly stop shouting at him, or you will have a shouty aggressive child. Take deep breaths count to five give a redirection to him.

He's being a toddler. There is no point shouting. He sounds bored if he is being that destructive to be honest. I'd get out the house as much as you can, our toddler behaves much better when not at home. Worth doing some reading on other ways to deal with challenging situations. How to talk so little kids will listen is good.

He is plain ignorant and honestly it must be genetic because his dad is just the same.
He is 20 months old.
Are you with his father?

Agree with everything here. How to Talk is a great book and yes, my toddler is always a joy to be around when he's been out and about all morning in the fresh air. They all need run off their feet in the morning like puppies.

It is a tough age. They want to explore and touch everything. I try to teach mine how to touch things and explain we need to be gentle/careful with things, but allow as much as possible. For instance if you let them touch the Christmas tree I would explain to never touch the lights, but show him how tp hang a bauble. Obviously make sure the baubles at toddler level aren't ones I'm that bothered about, or ones hard to destroy, but allow him to learn to hook them on and unhook them. Once he has mastered that skill he will move onto the next thing and the tree becomes old hat. For other things just move anything out of the way if he can't resist fiddling with them or if he is persistently messing with something, close the door and bring him out of that room and explain why.
If he is climbing, give him something safe to climb, a little step onto the sofa, or a pickler triangle if you have space, or just take him out to the park or soft play to climb.
Redirect him onto things safe to touch and play with. At this age they really start to like helping, so have him help in any way he can. Putting socks in the washer, chopping some cucumber for lunch with a toddler knife. You can have him at the counter with some play dough or water painting, or magic sand, or give him a little jug and cup and put some dried lentils in it and show him how to pour. Cut out some squares of coloured paper and have him glue them onto a larger sheet. Just keep him busy basically, and yes, get out as much as possible! Mine have both been easier to manage when they are out and about.

I think at that age we would be out doing something by 9/9.30 as DS was bored by then. So up at 7 then out 9.30-12ish for couple of hours to have lunch & nap. Nap 1-3 then out again for couple of hours. I don't think you can expect a 2yo toddler to just potter about the house. My DD would be fine doing craft, jigsaws, play doh etc but some children just get bored & need to be kept busy & get out.

I don't think you should be calling him ignorant!

Also does he do anything like swimming, toddler gym to get rid of his energy?

Afternoons we used to just go to shop, post office, park - nothing exciting but just out & about.

Shouting no is pointless; you are raising cortisol levels for yourself and child by shouting. You need to start communicating and listening to each other. Look at some good parenting books for some help. And calling him ignorant is wildly unhelpful. You’re the parent - take your role seriously

Thanks for all your comments, although I feel a little attacked. Its very hard. My DH works full time and when he is here he spends hardly any time with DS and some days I feel like I'm doing it all on my own, parenting, looking after the house, running errands etc.

We don't go swimming as DS hates water. We regularly go to soft play, local toddler group at sure start, the park, and he has a little friend the same age who comes to play a couple of times a week (my neighbours DS) I try to keep him as entertained as possible but when we are in the house I find it extremely hard, he doesn't want to play with me or read a book, I can't keep his attention long enough, he gets bored and wanders off.

I don't call him ignorant to be mean, maybe that was the wrong choice of words. But he disregards everything i say, he does think that the boundaries i try to set are a game. Don't get me wrong I don't shout ALL the time, I find I lose my patience when I've spent the whole day repeating myself, for instance he has an obsession at the moment for beating the TV with his toys, throwing them at the screen (it's not within reach but he's got a good throw!) I've tried explaining it will break but he literally just carries on and thats when I become shouty mum. I feel terrible because I don't want him to resent me for always telling him no and I don't want him to grow up thinking I'm unapproachable but I also dont want him to think he can do what he wants and have no discipline in the sense that he thinks he can do anything he wants.

I'm sorry you feel attacked. I think the word ignorant was inflammatory for some. You have a DH problem, not a toddler problem. I'd look at addressing the imbalance in your relationship as a priority.

As per previous posts, your expectations of your son are too high. Most toddlers won't sit down for more than 30 seconds and won't attend to anything for more than a few minutes. This is normal. He is too young to properly understand the concept of no and boundary setting. Hence the suggestion of spending more time out of the house where they are entertained by things around them. It doesn't need to expensive purposeful trips, a walk out in the buggy to a cafe, a walk to the local shop, trip to your local library, garden centres are endless free entertainment. It might not be exciting for you but he will be entertained and therefore less hard work. I'd have a read about child development stages as well as the book I suggested for behaviour management. There are lots of free resources online about child development and these will give you an idea of what you can reasonably expect from him at different ages.

Ok, so you need to employ a bit of behaviour redirection. Spend a day observing what your son does the good and the less desirable and then work out how to redirect his behaviour in a positive way. Not just watching him but observe what he does and why. If he has the language skills ask him to explain what he's doing.

To me it sounds like he has a trajectory play schema (there are 8 different types One Hundred Toys website explains schemas well).

Set up some activities where he can safely redirect his play. Indoor snowballs/rolled up socks thrown into a plastic mixing bowl or hula hoops, an indoor basketball hoop etc

Toddlers do not hear the words 'No' or 'Dont' you have to change the way you talk to positive instructions, telling them concise what you do want them to do not giving more attention to the behaviour you don't want ' Keep your feet on the floor', 'walking legs, please" etc. It takes a while to get used to doing but benefits your mental health as you aren't always shouting no. You can then keep "STOP" for times of immediate danger - also practise what to do when he hears you shout stop, IE make his body still ready for the next instruction.

Also, a child's attention span is about their age + 2 mins, so I wouldn't expect him to sustain any activity independently for more than 5 minutes. That's why nursery have lots of activities set out so they can move from one to the other

With the TV you could just calmly tell him that we don't throw things at the TV because it will break. I'd suggest to him we play a really fun game of throwing instead and find a bucket or basket or something and get out some soft toys and try to throw the toys in the basket, giving him lots of applause when he does so. Also a balloon might satisfy his desire to throw things about.

Anything that was then thrown at the tele would be confiscated and put on a high shelf out of his reach and if he carried on he would be taken out of the room.

At this age my first son would have crapped his pants at me shouting but my second would have laughed at the funny reaction from me, so it was important to act a bit nonchalant and calmy redirect otherwise it would turn into the best game ever.

Your DH should definitely be expected to pick up the slack when you are feeling frazzled so you can step away for a break from it. Have you spoken to him about that?

He doesn't get have the language skills, and he only says mumma and dada but and ball etc he hasn't quite strung the words together although he can follow simple instructions like ",come here please" etc.

Yes we hav spoken and he does make a conscious effort for a little while but then it goes back to normal. I think he thinks that because he works and I don't that when he comes in from work it's "his" time. He does try to discipline him though when he is here and strsngely DS tends to listen more to him than me.

It really helped me to learn more about child development so that I understood the age and stage better. At 20 months there is no way to discipline in the conventional sense, distraction and redirection both are real effective though. Also this is prime toddler proofing years, if he's throwing stuff at the Tv, only set him down to watch tv with soft toys and put the hard toys in a different room. Or put a basket at the opposite end of the room and get him to throw his toys in, so he's doing what he wants and not damaging the TV.

Toddler Taming was quite a helpful book when I was a new mum.

@MummySS22 it's a long time since my DD was that age I couldn't remember what language skills were like then.

You could try learning baby signing together, that is fantastic and massively reduces frustration on both sides as it's far easier to communicate through signing babies start from when they can clap. Lots of videos on YouTube, makaton has simpler hand signals than BSL, Something Special is great if still on Cbeebies or just make up your own.

Are you maybe concentrating too much on the cants and not enough on the coulds? It's really easy to get into a negativity mindset where you are always telling them what not to do. So instead of saying "you can't touch that" you can say "could you play with the x" instead. Instead of "stop making a mess" you can say "could you help me put the toys away?" Instead of "stop being naughty and put your coat on" you can say "could you show me how well you can put your coat on?" It's amazing how effective a simple language change can be.
Is he bored? Or sensory seeking? It's common for kids to want to break things at that age. Which is a nightmare when they are throwing your favourite nik naks at the TV, but perfectly fine when they are building a tower and knocking it down

I'd put anything breakable - electronics etc either out of reach or in a different room with a shut door. Remove all pens or paints. Toddler proofing is an art.

Tell him NO firmly once. If he tries again pick him up and physically remove him from the temptation.

Large play pen in the same room as you, so you can chat to him while you work. Provide him with plenty of soft toys, noisy stuff, picture books that he can throw without damage and you can ignore. If he throws things out of the play pen he loses them.

Plus lots of exercise and attention when you have time.

it is hard but there is a risk that your DC will get used to the word ‘no’ and ignoring it. Some advice I read which helped me with my children are:

• descriptive praise. Whenever they do something good, praise them and say why. For example “you’re very good at picking up your toy and putting it back.”, etc.. Try and do descriptive praise as much as possible;
• with hitting, say “kind hands”, take DC’s hand and show DC how to stroke softly. DC will eventually understand.
• a naughty box. If DC throws a toy, put it in the naughty box for 24 hrs before giving it back.
• Don’t be scared of the tantrums.
• give DC an instruction and, if it’s ignored, count down loudly from 5. If you finish the count down and the child has not obeyed, then either enforce the action or do naughty corner. 20 months might be a bit young for this method but around 2 yrs maybe.
• accountability. If DC spills a cup of water, give them a tea towel and instruct them to clean it up using a nice voice (“oops! Don’t worry, just clean it up). Get DC to tidy up after themselves, etc..
• every child is different but my DCs (1.5yrs and 3.5yrs) really like “helping” with house work such as emptying the dishwasher, “cleaning” shower tiles using a cloth or squidgy, sweeping the floor with child’s broom. Stuff like this you can do together and they really love being praised for being helpful.
• if they want to throw something, have certain, permitted places where things can be thrown (I.e. the laundry basket, toy box or a cardboard box).

By the way, the above is all assuming that DC is progressing within the usual wide range expected for the age group.

Are you a SAHM? I am a working mother but I think being a SAHM is harder emotionally. I enjoyed a long maternity leave which I loved but it’s so physically and emotionally exhausting and I think that adds to the frustration with DC acts up. I’m sure you’re doing amazingly and 20 months is an age of testing boundaries.