When do bed times stop being a nightmare?

[SmedsSmoos]

4.5 year old is a fucking nightmare every bed time. He'll flip about something every night. He doesn't want to get dressed, or brush his teeth, he wants mummy, now he wants daddy, he wants 'a thousand stories' not just three and will scream cry hysterically about it for half an hour. It's just relentless, he wants water, he wants more water, he's hungry, he wants to go to sleep in the morning, he only sleeps on Thursdays (just listing his reasons for the tears and shouting!)

Weve tried ignoring the bad, we've tried making it fun, he gets rocket ship up the stairs, he gets to play a game on his dads phone while he brushes his teeth, he gets to pick his pyjamas etc. We have tried everything, it is literally every single night. He has screamed in my face repeatedly tonight, like at the top of his voice screaming at me "I'M! HAVING! 1000! STORIES! NOT! 3!" I told him not to shout at me, and that he is wasting all of his story time screaming and crying and won't even have time for three in a minute, but he just won't drop it, no, he wants a thousand stories, won't lie down, won't stop crying, just relentless.

I have tried telling him yes ok you can have 1000 stories but he just gets you to keep reading and reading and reading and then eventually it'll be 9pm and I have to say this is ridiculous and the tears start again - so I can't just say that.

On a good night, which doesn't mean no hysterics, just means he had the hysterics about getting dressed or brushing his teeth but did get into bed after and let us read to him, he will have 3 stories and fall asleep. When he decides to kick off about how many stories he's having it's almost impossible to get him to calm down and in to bed.

We dread every single bed time. They are awful. When the fuck does it stop!?!?!

No advice as my 4.5 DD is EXACTLY the same! Solidarity to you, it's flipping exhausting! Hoping it gets better soon!!

Is this anxiety? Scared of dark, scared of bed, scared of being alone?

There's a good book on Amazon by Dawn Huebner 'What to do when you dread your bed'.

There has to be a reason behind this surely? Is he scared of the dark, being abandoned, nightmares, the morning ahead????? I'm so sorry for you all. It sounds tough. Especially for the little guy.

Would stories on a Yoto player or tonie box work for him? You do your 3 or however many you’re happy with, then leave him to listen to ‘1000’ stories on his own (in reality he’ll probably drop off after a couple?)

Nope, he won't let us leave until he's asleep. He has three stories and if not asleep just has cuddles after and falls asleep like that, doesn't take that long so we just do it. He has a night light, he hasn't mentioned nightmares, and he's happy in the mornings. Just a nightmare at bed time! We've tried moving it earlier, moving it later, nothing changes.

I feel for you. Tough times. Have you tried a reward chart? There's loads of ideas online. So if he goes to bed he gets a star. If he behaves after his story another one. I did mine in lines and when I got the required amount of stars they got a treat. A book or anything really. I did it with twins so the competitive spirit helped. Try any sort of reward for fabulous behaviour tactic. Good luck. There's always 🍷 x

So maybe not the best parenting ever but this is how we do it (DD is 6 now but the ideas haven’t changed since she was 4):
-Bath, teeth, into PJs
-Then upstairs and she gets her ipad for 30 minutes
-We go up, take the ipad, and read her 1 story (only ever 1) then say goodnight
-She’s then welcome to play in her room as long as she likes
Any deviation from the above and there will be no ipad tomorrow. This is a big motivator so we never have any hassle. At 4.5 she’d be asleep by 7.45 latest, now it’s usually more like 8.15. Wakes up happy and well rested at 7 every morning. It works really well for us.

Strict routine and firm boundaries. If you say 3 stories its 3 stories.

Same routine every night. Teeth, pjs, bed, stories, hug and you leave the room.

Don't let him get more of your time by having a tantrum and dragging you into a debate.

If you have to go back in settle him back down then you don't talk and leave when he is still awake.

I have done this so trust me I know it is utterly shit, but it is utterly shit for a week or so until they learn that this is how it is going to be.

It doesn't
You spend the first few years trying to get them in it and stay in it.
The next lot trying to get them out of it
Then comes the 'have they even been home and slept in it and If not why not and where the fuck are they'
Then they move out but mysteriously appear in the night again
Good luck,
Hope that helps

What @Gro said..pare it right back. Have a short routine, stick to it. He's 4.5, old enough to understand what's happening. Talk to him "from tonight, thus is how bedtime is going to be...bath, teeth, 3 stories,bed."

Say you'll sit with him fir a few minutes then that you're going to sort washing, tidy your room or whatever. Pop in every few minutes. But he has to stay in bed.

The yoto us a great idea, especially as they have sleep stories/bedtime meditations..

You need to be firm about the routine. He may well scream about it but at the end of the day, he's safe, he knows you're there abd doesn't appear to have any fears/anxieties.

What @Gro said is helpful . We have a 4 year old and 18 month old and bedtime has been exactly the same since 4 year old was 7 months and in their own cot. The sacrifice does mean that we don’t do things outside of their routine. We are always back in the house by 6pm, dinner at the same time every night etc. Both of us do bedtime taking one child each. Only on rare/special occasions or when impossible do we deviate ( driving back from Cornwall overnight… 🫣😂) but they both slept through and it was fine. I know we are probably lucky in this sense though. Consistency is key if possible for your family situation, but I know it’s not easy so I hope you work out a solution!

At 4.5 I would be very very firm. Screaming at me would result in no stories that night.

i would ignore the resulting hysterics until he had calmed down and then I would comfort and cuddle and soothe but no stories.

(I love a story/prioritise reading so I’d have more during the day the next day or at the weekend but I wouldn’t link that with the misbehaviour).

Rinse and repeat exactly what is happening and do not deviate from the plan. You explain that if he doesn’t brush teeth it’s only one story, the same for pj’s etc. we do one story then twinkle star in bed, no exceptions.

When ours kicked off like that she got no stories and after a couple of nights she learnt that in order to get stories she had to behave.
Have you tried removing any stories for bad behaviour? And actually sticking to it?
Id also knock sitting with him until he’s asleep on the head too. Hes not a baby. He should be able to go to sleep by now

It stopped for us when I worked out my 3yo had been at nursery all day and just wanted time to play with mummy and to play at home, decompression time I suppose, the same as us adults feel after work.

Then it got easier and everyone relaxed a bit more. Bedtimes are ok now although we do still get the occasional crazy one, few and far between.

I feel this.

Two things that have worked for us:

Firstly, have the room quite dark. Also turn off most of the lights in the house so that the walk from bath to bedroom is dimly lit for a nighttime feel.

Secondly, you've got to choose the right book. No poetry, nothing too short or exciting, but it still has to be interesting to hold their attention initially. We modulate the tone so it's all dramatic with different voices etc, so dd gets interested, but then slowly and gradually get more monotone until it's just too boring to stay awake.

Tonies don't work for dd (at least not at bedtime) because it's too exciting and doesn't slow down and get boring as she starts to settle

the others are right. Super firm and no deviations and your little one will soon be much happier too. Kids thrive with boundaries and it makes them feel safe. They're like dogs. Feed, exercise, kind discipline, love and repeat ❤️

Ps I know lots of people say "just be firm, give consequences like no story" etc but honestly, for some kids/ages that just does not work. If you threaten no story (or some other consequence) they get too wound up with rage and disappointment that you could not be further from sleep

We have definitely tried saying he doesn't get any stories now and he absolutely lost it, cried himself to sleep but it took hours and he got so distressed it was awful to see.

We do have boundaries with him but it's hard because it's not the same thing he kicks off about each night, he just always finds something.

Interesting about how we shouldn't be lying with him? Is there a reason that's bad? He won't want me to forever and tbh after the battle of bed time once he's had his stories and asks for a cuddle it's lovely to snuggle up and have him fall asleep like that.

Consistency is the key.

One day during the morning, sit down as a family and talk about the new bedtime routine and make a plan.

Be that one story in bed or two stories downstairs or whatever it is you do, make the plan, stick to it, with no give ins etc. no punishments for not complying, if he spends the entire time screaming and doesn't listen to the story, so be it, read the story, into bed and then repeat 'it's ok to feel cross, it's 2 stories and then sleep, time for sleep now' on repeat.

This may result in a screaming tantrum for one or two nights. Then he will realise that you mean what you say. He'll push harder than before because he's testing.

The biggest contributor to unwanted behaviours is an inconsistent response. You say you have 'tried everything' - this is probably part of the problem. Kids like predictability , certainty etc

too much screen time before bed?

If you're really struggling, look up 'big little feelings' on Instagram - they have a behaviour course for around £100 but also a lot of free content. I've found it unbelievably helpful. (Not sure if me recommending this is against mumsnet rules so apologies if it is!)

Mine are still fucking nightmares at 8 and 12. The avoidance, silliness and manipulations have evolved over the years, but are always there.

Don't withhold stories just get each part of the routine done and it takes as long as it takes. It will get quicker as he learns this.

Laying with him is not helpful because he needs to learn to fall asleep on his own. Also because if he wakes up an no-one is there he is more likely to get up.

I have absolutely no advise for successful bedtimes but I just wanted to say I still lay with my 4 year old to go to sleep. After long days at work/nursery I really enjoy the snuggles when she eventually stops bouncing around the bed! As you say, she's not going to want me forever and if I can 'teach' her to fall asleep alone at 4 I can still do it at 5,6 or 7. I'm no expert but I don't think that there's a limit they have to have conquered this skill by (hopefully!) so if you enjoy it please carry on!