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Parenting

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Original poster

When do bed times stop being a nightmare?

67 replies

SmedsSmoos · 07/12/2023 19:41

4.5 year old is a fucking nightmare every bed time. He'll flip about something every night. He doesn't want to get dressed, or brush his teeth, he wants mummy, now he wants daddy, he wants 'a thousand stories' not just three and will scream cry hysterically about it for half an hour. It's just relentless, he wants water, he wants more water, he's hungry, he wants to go to sleep in the morning, he only sleeps on Thursdays (just listing his reasons for the tears and shouting!)

Weve tried ignoring the bad, we've tried making it fun, he gets rocket ship up the stairs, he gets to play a game on his dads phone while he brushes his teeth, he gets to pick his pyjamas etc. We have tried everything, it is literally every single night. He has screamed in my face repeatedly tonight, like at the top of his voice screaming at me "I'M! HAVING! 1000! STORIES! NOT! 3!" I told him not to shout at me, and that he is wasting all of his story time screaming and crying and won't even have time for three in a minute, but he just won't drop it, no, he wants a thousand stories, won't lie down, won't stop crying, just relentless.

I have tried telling him yes ok you can have 1000 stories but he just gets you to keep reading and reading and reading and then eventually it'll be 9pm and I have to say this is ridiculous and the tears start again - so I can't just say that.

On a good night, which doesn't mean no hysterics, just means he had the hysterics about getting dressed or brushing his teeth but did get into bed after and let us read to him, he will have 3 stories and fall asleep. When he decides to kick off about how many stories he's having it's almost impossible to get him to calm down and in to bed.

We dread every single bed time. They are awful. When the fuck does it stop!?!?!

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LambriniBobinIsleworth · 07/12/2023 21:58

Mine are 9.5 and just 8 and I'd say that only in the past six months have our bedtimes stopped being a nightmare. We can now do bath, teeth, story for the younger one and then they use their iPads til the WiFi goes off at 8.30 and then read until they're sleepy around 9.30 without any input from us. They go to sleep when they're tired, don't try and stay up relentlessly and don't try and play with their toys or whatever at bed time as they know they're not allowed. They just do sensible bed time things and do it autonomously. Our evenings are our own again... it only took a decade!

salamirose · 07/12/2023 22:02

Following for hints and tips. 3 year old is a nightmare!

Mummymummy89 · 07/12/2023 22:05

Ps I don't know if this is helpful to anyone but I have just, today, discovered strawberry flavoured toothpaste is a thing.

Dd hates brushing her teeth (as do I tbf) and it was just another source of conflict close to bedtime, but strawberry flavour met her approval this evening and made things that bit easier

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OrderOfTheKookaburra · 07/12/2023 22:14

firstpregnancy1 · 07/12/2023 20:30

Consistency is the key.

One day during the morning, sit down as a family and talk about the new bedtime routine and make a plan.

Be that one story in bed or two stories downstairs or whatever it is you do, make the plan, stick to it, with no give ins etc. no punishments for not complying, if he spends the entire time screaming and doesn't listen to the story, so be it, read the story, into bed and then repeat 'it's ok to feel cross, it's 2 stories and then sleep, time for sleep now' on repeat.

This may result in a screaming tantrum for one or two nights. Then he will realise that you mean what you say. He'll push harder than before because he's testing.

The biggest contributor to unwanted behaviours is an inconsistent response. You say you have 'tried everything' - this is probably part of the problem. Kids like predictability , certainty etc

Absolutely this!

It doesn't matter what he kicks off about. He kicks gif about different things because he's hoping this might work, and guess what? It is! It works for him because he gets extra stories or he plays on the phone, he gets cuddles to sleep etc, etc.

Keep it consistent and eventually he will get tired of it and will realise it's not worth the effort because he doesn't get any extras.

However, be prepared for the tantrums to ramp up first. They've worked before so he's going to try to get them to work again, and will tantrum more and more in an effort to get his way. Give in once and you'll set this process back again.

zeddybrek · 07/12/2023 22:23

There is a very long story, something along the line of The Rabbit that couldn't sleep. This could be the 3rd story. You have to read it in a particular way and basically it's slow, quiet and calming. Dimly lit room. It bores them to sleep. Helped with one child not the other so worth a shot if you're desperate.

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2023 23:23

Do not negotiate with terrorists or small children.

Your being held hostage by the demands of your own child.

He's getting attention every time you engage with it.

Bbq1 · 07/12/2023 23:30

SmedsSmoos · 07/12/2023 19:57

Nope, he won't let us leave until he's asleep. He has three stories and if not asleep just has cuddles after and falls asleep like that, doesn't take that long so we just do it. He has a night light, he hasn't mentioned nightmares, and he's happy in the mornings. Just a nightmare at bed time! We've tried moving it earlier, moving it later, nothing changes.

Could you cut the stories down and top up audio stories. I don't think cuddling him to sleep is ideal. He has to be taught some self settling skills. Would he respond to a reward chart based around bedtimes?

Flyhigher · 08/12/2023 04:55

He doesn't like being alone. Hates it. Mine was the same. In the end we co slept from 5 till 10.
It was wonderful. She then went into her own bed before secondary school.
Do you have a dog? Or a sibling? Mine was an only child so I don't know if that affects it.

Flyhigher · 08/12/2023 04:58

No games on the phone at all. Something's happened at school to upset him. Calming music. Calming sleepy stories. Don't make anything a game. No rocket rides.

Flyhigher · 08/12/2023 05:01

It's anxiety. Need to find ways to self soothe. Lego? Or colouring?Does he like the bath?

Flyhigher · 08/12/2023 05:03

I would not do the iPad. It encourages screens and phones. Very bad for them.

Flyhigher · 08/12/2023 05:08

Boundaries don't work for all kids. It didn't for ours. Maybe as an only child. Ours wanted a warm body or just us nearby to sleep to. More exercise will help.

OneMoreStepAlongTheRoadIGo · 08/12/2023 05:23

I wouldn't do ipad at night ad it sets up screen time before bed assiciation.

Please don't ever withhold stories. That time of reconnection should be there every single night no matter how evil they have been. And can add to the fear.

Loon at your own body language and tone of voice. If you think about an airplane going theough turbulence and you have a calm voice come over the system reassuring you its just turbulence you're calm. If you heard a panicky anxious voice saying "don't worry... I think it's turbulance" it would make you anxious! Similarly kids pick up if we are anxious and it makes them feel the situation isn't under control.

I personally think lying with them/sitting with them is fine if it fits with you as it can be that last bit of reassurance.

Is it too many demands/things to do at once? Does it all start as you go upstairs? Or with the bathroom? It's worth breaking it down into what stage works and what doesn't.

When it's not bedtime you could make a visual timetable with them. They help list the things that are part of bedtime (clean teeth, stories, lights out etc ..)and draw a picture for each one. Then the next night you get them to "read" the list and tell you what's next. While making the list you can talk about each stage and maybe see if they seem anxious about a particular bit. Having the visual reassurance of what's coming next can help some kids.

Sometimes we just accept that right now it is taking time and it won't always be like this.

Does it start before you go upstairs? When you mention bed?

You say when you lie with him it doesn't take long to actually get to sleep so this stage is actually working. How long is the gap in between?

OneMoreStepAlongTheRoadIGo · 08/12/2023 05:24

Fly higher completely agree with all you've said!

Theantsgomarchingtwo · 08/12/2023 05:37

Op its really hard and every kid is different. I agree with the visual aid as suggested above - would it help if you have a board up with pictures?

We have 3 dc (one has asd) and all 3 are cuddled to sleep- ages between 3 and 8) we've had to do some jiggling over the years to work out what works best for our family. Our bedtime routine starts with stories downstairs with toast, then dim lights & yoga/ occupational therapy, upstairs is pitch black & warm bath in the dark / fairy lights / night music. We gave up with books In bed as mine never sat for them / just messed around so we bath, dry off and then into bed & listen to sleepy music / white noise whilst I lay in the bed with them . It has taken some years of trying different routines to work out what clicks for mine - I hope you manage to find a solution. 😘

autienotnaughty · 08/12/2023 06:05

We use to have awful time at bedtime now we make it as quick as possible. We go up he gets the tablet for 30 min to chill out. We do teeth/face /pjs . Read 1 book and Ed. The last bit takes10 min (20 on bath night. ) no fuss no games o drama. The going to sleep and on your own is important to.

The main thing is to accept its shit. Try not to argue or tie in to tantrums.

Flyhigher · 08/12/2023 06:06

Do not use iPad to sleep. It sets you up for iPhone abuse later. Try hard to drop that habit now. books. Music.

LateNightReads · 08/12/2023 06:15

we started reading chapter books when 3 stories wasn’t enough. She falls asleep listening.

OneMoreStepAlongTheRoadIGo · 08/12/2023 06:20

Theants- that sounds great and a really good example of changing a routine up to make it work for you.

Justfinking · 08/12/2023 06:22

Sorry to hear this OP, it sounds terrible and I feel for you. I wonder if you just be 'tough', this is how it is and just stick to it. He can scream and cry all he want but you don't budge. I assume after a couple of weeks he will give up, I think the key is consistency (but I have no idea!! So this is just some ideas)

Justfinking · 08/12/2023 06:24

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2023 23:23

Do not negotiate with terrorists or small children.

Your being held hostage by the demands of your own child.

He's getting attention every time you engage with it.

This. They can smell weakness I swear! And they're more persistent and we are tired so we end up giving in

Leafysuburb · 08/12/2023 06:30

We read downstairs after teeth, same age ds and we are reading chapter books like rauld Dahl so he gets one chapter and up to bed. In bed he gets an audiobook.

To leave I did have to a process of "I'll just pop and get..." Drawing out the period I was away longer and longer. He also goes through stages of getting up repeatedly in the evening but this is usually sorted with a sticker chart for a week.

Ascubudr · 08/12/2023 06:32

A few Qs you say 4.5 so at school in reception ? Or still at nursery ?

What time does he need to get up in the morning ?
What time does bedtime start ?
How many hours of sleep is he getting in total ?

Has this always been the case or a new problem ?
Does he get at least an hour running about outside between 2 & 4 each afternoon ?

Bubbles254 · 08/12/2023 06:35

I find going to sleep with a toy works for my 4 year old at the moment. He needs to be distracted from the idea of going to sleep so I leave him with some colouring things or a small puzzle he can do in bed. Not sure how much longer it will work for, I think new strategies are constantly needed and what works with one child will not work with another.

EasternStandard · 08/12/2023 06:40

You may do this already but tell him what will happen each night before you start

Say what you expect eg no shouting for this to happen

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