4 year old violent at school

[FernBb]

Hi all,

I’m having a real hard time and wanted some advice.

At home, my son is highly energetic, communicates well and is kind and loving. But it’s just me and him at home so I don’t know if that has a play in this.

In school, which he started this September, he has hurt another child or member of staff every day, runs out of the classroom when asked to do something he doesn’t want to do, doesn’t share and is now facing exclusion (at 4 years old!!!) because his behaviour is so unpredictable and violent.
I’m being told teachers don’t want to work with him and other parents want to fight me cause they’re sick of their child coming home and saying mine hit them or bit them.

The school SENCO told me to get him assessed and apply for LIFT but these incidents keep stacking up in the mean time and it’s appearing more and more like they don’t want to wait for these things to be available.
The headteacher told me that an assessment and LIFT won’t help and they ‘can’t keep having students knock out teachers’

I’m constantly being asked what to do but firstly, this child they’re describing isn’t the one I deal with so I don’t know how to help from experience, secondly, I have been researching like crazy and everything just says what I can do at home if they act out but they don’t act out at home so I don’t know?!

Can anyone give any advice please? I’m exhausted and anxious all the time and feel so useless!

I'm only quoting what op said. Only op knows if them words were said

@Shithole101

those were exactly the words used by the head teacher in a call.
’can’t have students knocking out teachers’
’an assessment and LIFT won’t help because they won’t tell us what we don’t already know’

@BelindaOkra

he turns 5 in March

I understand they’re short staffed and underfunded but they seem to have tried 1 way and cause that hasn’t worked instantly, they’re wiping their hands of him

@Ostryga

if he hits at home, he goes in time out, loses a portion of tv time, then is asked if he knows what he did wrong.
sometimes he does, othertimes he needs help understanding, then he apologises and doesn’t do it again but the consequence stays

same happens if I’m told by school that he hit, he is spoken to and tv time taken away
problem is the school doesn’t always tell me, the teachers will tell me he had a good day then 2/3 days later email me to say actually he didn’t

It's a late age to develop biting a s reluctance to share. Did something trigger the behaviour.?

I would not want me kid at a school like that.💐

No.And that is what the HT is counting on.

Yep sadly

The last quote doesn't make sense.

those were exactly the words used by the head teacher in a call.
’can’t have students knocking out teachers’
’an assessment and LIFT won’t help because they won’t tell us what we don’t already know’
hes 4, this is terrible from the teacher and the head at that. Unbelievable what they said re the assessment. Have you got it in you to coldly ask do they always discourage students with behavioural challenges to seek further help? Since you’ve apparently seen it all before then surely you have more than a single tactic here. Id like to know what you are going to do here to help manage his behaviour. (And it is shit but come with some suggestions- eg could your son take half an hour in a quiet zone every few hours?). And of course is changing schools an option? I’d be looking into that, but also doing these other things as you are stuck for right now.

Sounds like this is the wrong school for him, is it small? wait until the assessment then ask for him to be transferred to a larger school able to deal with dc with more diverse needs. Initially it sounds like he needs a ta to work with him on behaviour and to effectively communicate with you so you can have a joint approach (sounds obvious but many schools don't seem to put this into place despite it being a cheap effective intervention)

https://www.kelsi.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/66480/Parent-Guide-EY-LIFT-A5-Booklet.pdf

This might help you? You could apply for an EHCP, as the assessment would include an educational psychology assessment.

@Lougle that's good advice if they are pushing him down this road at such a young age.

My DD is in a small school with 4 school years per class, last year most days she'd tell a tale about ("the adventures of") boy 'Z' who was in the nursery class (playgroup AM, preschool PM). Boy 'Z' has some SEN and limited speech but has always come across as incredibly sweet when I have met him.

Boy 'Z' is now in reception (still same class as DD who is now year 1) and I've not heard her mention him once this year.

Your DS might just be too young for school and exhausted. What time of day are these issues arising? Are you in a position to have him home in the afternoon and build up to full time again when he is more settled/older.

Was he on the thrive programme in nursery? Have you considered looking at other primaries in your are/? I know it's not always the best thing to change the setting but the school don't appear to have the best behaviour management in place.

A friend had a similar issue with her autistic child including a teacher saying "I can't deal with you today" sending her out of class etc. She moved them to a new school and they are doing really well now.

I hope you find a solution. 4 is very young and nursery would have normally identified concerns prior to school. I appreciate the biting happened but that is a common issue I remember both my children being bitten at nursery. Seemed to be a few children going through a sensory biting stage.

Hey @FernBb how are things now OP? I'm going through the same thing with my DS 3.5yo and it's really stressful, school have requested a 1:1 assistant because they can't cope. He wasn't like this at nursery but it's got progressively worse since he started school

My son is having exactly the same problem. The nicest child ever at home, but so violent at nursery. My wife and I work full time and are getting called to collect him. I have no idea what I can do. He goes to school in September and I’m dreading it. I wonder if other people have been through this and come out the other side with experience?

@Maccaandy I think it's not uncommon with boys, I spoke with a friend recently who's a consultant pediatrican and she said some kids take longer than others to control their emotions. Have nursery told you what's triggering his behaviour or any other observations? My sons school have hinted that my DS might be autistic so we are exploring that as we also experience this behaviour at home along with some other traits but it's hard to tell if it's that or he's a just a 3 year old that is struggling with change.

He doesn’t really have any triggers. It usually happens when he wants to do something but they won’t let him, but that “something” isn’t anything which seems to be common. Out of interest, what kind of other traits are potentially associated with autism?

I feel like I’ve find my people! Honestly this thread is the most similar to my daughter’s experience. She’s 3.5 and acts in a violent rage when it’s not something she can have. Being sent home, excluded for a period of time. I can’t even focus on my job cos I’m waiting for the dreaded phone call. I think it’s too long of days for her with too many people about. Her days are shorter than the last nursery but this is a school nursery so way more rules. I have a meeting with the school tomorrow it might be a case of some short days some long days! They’re bringing in an occupational therapist soon to see what’s going on.
other traits could be taking shoes and socks off, climbing on everything just never stopping. I’m leaning towards PDA profile / sensory seeking and adhd. You can defo have more than 1 at a time so have a look. My daughter doesn’t stop talking, won’t take no for an answer and will use her words and hands. I’ve learnt to keep my cool and it works better as she loves a reaction although I do walk away a lot

Thank you. We had this issue with the pre-school we put our son in. We eventually had a psychologist review him and she said the rules were just too much for him. We’ve subsequently taken him out and put him with a child minder. We now don’t have any calls to take him home. Made our life a lot better. The child minder takes him out and the focus is more on play rather than structured learning. We’ve been there with the calls to take him home and it’s horrible. You might want to consider alternative environments for your child.

For anyone that still looks at this post and has children with similar experiences

My child is now on a reduced timetable which we dropped down to 12-3
Then after we have a term of no violence, we increase it by a half hour and wait until my childs adjusted.

Whilst they’re at school, they don’t go into class as it’s too overwhelming for them so they have a desk outside with the classroom door open so they can still see that it’s not scary
A TA teaches them their lessons at their own desk
My child also has frequent movement breaks and ear defenders for lunch time when the school hall gets too loud

It’s a long, exhausting road but we are seeing significant improvements
A lot less violent days, they’re learning from the lessons, getting on with other kids more

But I do also want to note that the first and last week of term are always difficult because my child is burnt out and struggling with the change in routine

Also, at home, as much as it’s frowned on, my child also has ipad time at home as I feel it’s a great form of escapism which means they only have to deal with the overwhelming world for less hours
We also do some lessons at home so my child can see that it’s not scary

I hope this helps everyone!

These early years are so hard as they have no ability to reason, understand emotions or communicate how they are feeling but it is getting easier
I am also doing this whilst working full time and maintaining a house so trust me when I say it’s exhausting

Do you know what your next steps would be when it’s time for reception? I’m of course open to anything that will help her improve before then, but I’m wondering how she would then cope when it comes to reception

Thank you this does help! I’m thinking of shorter days for her too.
full time job and a house too! Struggle to even look after myself anymore!

We have him in a nursery a couple of days a week too. Well slowly increase the time spent in the nursery. I’m confident it’s a maturity thing. I’ve spoken to lots of people about this and generally, unless there are underlying issues, then they tend to just grow out of it. Just need to try and condition him that hitting is not an acceptable means of communication. The problem is that you can’t teach that when it’s not 121 with someone who is experienced.