Total lack of parental authority

[Noauthority]

Feeling like a complete failure. 5 year old DC is doing well at school, no behavioural issues, eats well, sleeps well etc. Behaviour at home has been terrible for the past few months, however, and the worst part appears to be a total lack of respect for me (and Dad but he does less behavioural enforcement anyway..).

They tell me not to be cross, they don't like that tone if voice. The response to a simple request (go to the loo before we go out etc) is to tell me they won't and I'm being rude to ask. Any attempt by me to enforce a boundary is met by them telling me how awful I am. If I am really holding the line on something, they will attempt to scream and cry until I am 'nice' again. I've had to physically remove them from hurting themselves once or twice and am told I was 'too rough' - I wasn't. The most minor request and they start telling me I don't love them and I'm horrible. I'm not sure I'm conveying this very well but I'm finding it incredibly wearing and also very manipulative. They very effectively make me doubt myself!

We have always had a very close relationship. I am their main source of comfort, we spend loads of one on one time together, I've tried 'love bombing' even more and often feel like I'm resorting to 'treats' which don't improve the actual issue at all but seem to increase entitlement. I'm the only person they accept at bedtime and getting up and I go out of my way to make their weekends special etc. I feel like I've gone seriously wrong somewhere please help😪. I honestly feel so sad that I just want to walk out and give up.

Given DC behaves at school this sounds like a you problem not SN.
I wonder whether you need to get more hardline and firm. Let them tantrum, but don't give in. No bribery, but rewards. Maybe a reward chart for doing as they are told?
Every time you give in, or accept rudeness, or bribe, you are undoing the work you do when you stand firm.

I'm sure it is a 'me' problem, I agree. I don't ever give in though and these are not major requests. I guess I potentially don't ever withdraw treats or nice things, but I don't give in. Its very difficult to describe but it's like an utter lack of respect and a desire to paint me as an ogre when I'm not! And I mean way more than you obviously expect a bit of boundary pushing in young children - I can reduce me to tears very often (not in front of them).

Perhaps because Dad rarely does any enforcement and leaves it to me, that makes me the 'bad one' (even though they are closer to me).

You are rewarding his bad behaviour with treats, "love-bombing" and special weekend things.

Start with telling your child what you want him/her to do - "put your coat on", "brush your teeth", etc. None of this asking "Would you please get dressed?" or "What would you like to eat". Get some control, otherwise you'll have a very difficult and unhappy child. Never mind if your child has a tantrum or says they don't like you. Let them. Also, let them know that any poor behaviour (unless dangerous in any way) will be ignored, but praise good behaviour. Can you imagine a classroom/nursery having several kids like that? No, because they have rules.

All kids go through it - one of mine used to get on all fours and repeatedly bang his head on the floor if he didn't get his own way. He was 6. He soon realised it hurt and that it didn't get him what he wanted.

They've worked out how to push your buttons. Try not to take what they say personally. They are saying it to get a reaction, not because its true. Practice responses like "sorry to hear you don't like me today, I like you "; "its not my job to be nice, its my job to help you learn how to behave" or whatever works for you to communicate that the personal attacks aren't appropriate or useful.

DD went through a spell of really terrible behaviour around 5. An absolute angel at school and wonderful for anyone else, but rude, obstructive and generally very hard work for us at home. It lasted for a few months and then got a lot better. I don't think it was bad parenting on our end, just a developmental stage. I'd do my best to continue to enforce boundaries while riding it out.

My husband left it all to me, too, as he worked long hours and I was at home all the time. Our 2nd child used to hold his breath until he became unconscious (the GP advised me to ignore it as natural reflexes kick in to make the child start breathing)

So does your DH let your DS do what he likes, and get away with bad behaviour? How does your DH react when DS is rude/horrible to you?

I think your DH may be part of the problem.

I know I need to be stronger and I have told them that it's my 'job' to make them do things they don't want to for their own good. I think I'm exhausted from being both the good and the bad guy and I find the balance difficult. Also, I really can't stand an atmosphere so I think I feel the need to compensate if there has been a particularly bad tantrum etc. Am aware that letting a 5 year old get to me so much is my problem to some degree...

He stays out of it whilst it's happening. The tantrum may start in response to someone he asked but then DC will make their way to me for the full crescendo and resolution of it (come and find me in the house). DH is also one of those people who never gets angry or cross, which can be a good thing but also means he never really bothers to take action.....

Woah there everyone confidently declaring it's a you problem! This kind of thing is really common, kids hold it in all day at school and then explode at home where they feel safe.
When he's calm, are you able to have a gentle chat about how school is going? Rather than being firmer with him, you might be better off looking into something like Ross Greene's The Explosive Child

It sounds like your 5 year old is playing you like a fiddle.

In the kindest possible way you're lacking parental authority because you're letting it happen.

If a tantrum occurs leave the room and close the door. Remove the audience and attention - they'll soon get bored.

If they say "they don't like that tone if voice" the response is, "well change your behaviour so I don't have to use it".

Don't ask them if they need the toilet before you leave the house, tell them to go. If they say you're being rude, tell them it's rude to not do as they're told etc etc etc.

In short - shut them down! Why are you allowing a five year old to tell you what's what?

When my daughter tells me she hates me/doesn't like me/I'm mean etc all she gets is "I'm sorry you feel that way, now get xyz thing done." in a breezy, but 'try me' tone.

Your child needs those boundaries.

I sympathise. It's really tough. I get- 'I can if I want to' a lot from my 4 year old.
I try to give choices e.g we are doing your teeth now- do you want strawberry toothpaste (I know he doesn't mind the taste of it) or my toothpaste (he hates the taste of it). A few times I have had to use my toothpaste by force. He is now pretty good at letting me brush his teeth.
Some battles are harder e.g not jumping in puddles. It's hard as he is now faster than me and most 'natural consequences' he doesn't care about.
I don't know what the answer is.

Children value structure - they need to know where they stand. They may not like it on the surface, but not enforcing these things simply gives them more control than they are able to handle. He behaves at school because he knows the structure is there - that he is wasting his time telling a teacher he does not like them - they would just smile and move on.

Some important things:

• talk with your OH and decide between you some ground rules for discipline. Backing each other up is critical - if the child is getting mixed messages it will feel insecure - even though they are tempted to play one off against the other. They do it, but do not enjoy it - it puts them in a position of more power than they can handle.
• Decide on the bottom lines - the concept of "don't sweat the small stuff" is a good one. If you are engaging in a battle over small things, you have no ammunition left for those things that really do matter.
• When you have those bottom lines, enforce them and back each other up.
• Recognise that your child will not always like you. Hard to accept I know, but in your role as parent you will do and decide things that annoy them and they will at that moment not like you. If he tries "You are horrible - I don't like you" your response needs to be "I know that you are fed up with me just now, but never forget that we always love you and always have your best interests at heart." Don't get upset that he does not like you at that moment - if he sees that it will fan the flames.
• Once a flare up has settled, just give a quick hug and say "Great to have my lovely boy back" then go and get on with whatever you are doing. If he gets smothered with love at that point he will be a pain to get that reward.

Being a parent is a challenge and is not always the sweetness and light we might choose.

Gird up your loins - and get that OH of yours onside!

Some battles are harder e.g not jumping in puddles. - oh goodness - let him jump in puddles! It is part of being a child!!

To be fair @TeenDivided, my adopted daughter, who is nearly 16, blind and was only diagnosed with ADHD and autism a year ago, is a nightmare in the home setting but has always been butter-wouldn’t-melt in school… until recently, and now school are slowly but surely starting to see her PDA-type behaviours. From my personal experience, children with additional needs can spend so much of their school day masking and trying desperately not to fall foul of punitive and shaming behavioural systems that they are like a bottle of shaken pop when they get home and when the cork explodes, all hell can break loose.

This advice is spot on, but to put it in to practice you need to culvitate a confident, stern persona and really feel empowered and in charge. I feel for you OP as I used to feel very controlled by my DC until I started working on my strict mum persona. It was hard to do, as like you I want to love bomb, reward, everything to be nice, generally hate conflict. But our lives are so much better now I've cracked this. DC knows I mean business. I dragged him kicking and screaming out of a shopping centre last weekend when he was playing up and we didn't go back inside until he stopped. As he knows I am serious he stopped quickly. A while ago I read a good idea on here about using a marble jar. He gets marbles for good behaviour and I take them away for bad behaviour - it's very effective

Ignore the it's a you problem comments it's likely you bear the brunt because you are the one he trusts.

I'd be consistent, one discipline style ie timeout. Minimal language but be clear and consistent. Don't back down don't get into rows.

Try to pre manage any issues to avoid him playing. So if he struggles with waiting try to limit the time he has to wait (you can always work on it later)

Do pre warn him if you do X then you will sit out for five minutes.

Do negotiate if it works well for him. Don't be afraid to apologise if you do shout . But expect apologies back if ds shouts.

I guess it doesn't sound like an asd / explosive child to me because of the smart backchat etc described. It sounds more manipulative than decompressing / exploding, and doesn't sound to me similar to what I have seen parents of asd children describe.

I could of course be totally wrong.

How is the DC at weekends, half term etc?

This might be unpopular but I'm always a bit concerned when a poster tries to hide the sex of a small child. I get it when it's about division of chores at home, or finances because people want to take gender expectations out of it - but I don't think anyone has gender-based expectations for a 5 year old. So it immediately makes me think this is a bit of a "precious" environment.

Children absolutely are rude and boundary pushing. None of us get it right all of the time. Blatant rudeness like that would have had me saying, "you don't talk to me like that way" and either I'd leave the room, or I'd tell them to go upstairs. Refusal to do perfectly normal things would probably have had me shouting more than I liked, or I would have told them they'll have to deal with the consequences - there's no toilet where we're going so you're going to have to hold it in.

Your DP also needs to step up. I don't think both of you getting involved is the answer, but if for example one of my DC come to me because they're in dispute with DH, I almost always tell them it's got nothing to do with me and they must go back to Daddy to sort it out.

Sometimes, I am pretty sure my DC think I am unsympathetic. But that's because I am - when they're being rude, entitled, unreasonable and are old enough to know better, then yes, I'm unsympathetic. They will get no rewards, no support from me in those situations.

For the record, I don't consider myself a particularly strict parent. But there are some lines I will not tolerate them crossing.

You could look at intrinsic / extrinsic motivation for children

And praise good behaviour, try to ignore bad

Firm, friendly and fair

And perhaps look at parenting courses eg (1) Incredible Years or (2) Raising Children with Confidence

Some children do struggle to hold it together in school and then explode at home, so it's not necessarily as simple as "behaves in school, therefore I must be the problem"

I think the issue might be you are taking this too personally and they can see its effecting you so do it more. The child is 5 so has no frame of reference and to them all reactions are attention they are receiving, and they'll just fall into a pattern of interacting with you that gets results for them. They do not really understand the implications or true meaning of the things they say at that age. Them saying they hate you or don't be nasty, are just phrases they have seen that get a reaction out of you. Do not let this upset you or make you think they genuinely have 'no respect' for you. It's literally because they have respect for you that kids say stuff like this.. you are their world and they are trying to get a response from you and express their emotions to you. It doesn't mean what it would mean if an adult or even an older child said these things.
Keep as unemotional as possible, do not react, and stick to the clear boundary. If you say 'you need to try and go to the toilet before we go out' and they say no. You just repeat what you've said.. don't get into an argument or react to any emotive stuff they say.. be completely emotionally detached and above all do not go out until they have done it.
I know its really hard and easier said than done... and it does take some time to work so will be hell and you won't get anywhere on time for a while. But it seems you've fallen into a dynamic where your child thinks they can have a while argument with you about literally any request because for some reason they have seen that this effects you and gets a reaction out of you. You need to somehow wind that back so it becomes less interesting to them. Make it really boring not an exciting argument.
And please don't blame yourself or take it personally or think they really don't have respect for you. They don't even understand what respect is.. a 5yo just wants to test out what emotional effects they can bring out in their parents , they have very limited empathy. They are very young children

If your DC is a girl, then she might be masking her difficulties in school and letting them out at home. This is worth considering. Girls tend to start showing signs of difficulty at school when they reach secondary age.

If your DC is a boy, then this is less true - neurodivergence/struggles tend to be more obvious in their behaviour at school. It might be that he needs firm boundaries and immediate consequences, and for you and DH to be on the same page.

Talk to them as if you’re their friend whilst still protecting them. If someone told me to go to bed in a stern voice I wouldn’t want to either.

Try the book ‘1,23 Magic’ - it’s really good on explaining how to set and hold boundaries at this age, but also shows compassion and understanding of child development.