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Original poster

Nearly 4yo DS was so horrible to me this morning...

58 replies

Lollyloup83 · 08/11/2023 16:53

He was acting up, not allowing me to get him changed, refusing to eat breakfast at the table, moaning and whining and saying stuff like "you're not coming to my party" which is his usual type of thing.

But then, he said "well I'm going to stare at you then!" And he stared at me like an adult trying to scare me - it was horrible and I've been really shaken by it all day.

I know people will say in overreacting but I'm starting to wonder if my DS is just a horrible person. Has anyone else ever felt the same?

OP posts:
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Hereforthebunfights · 08/11/2023 18:34

I can't imagine doing anything but laugh in this situation.

Cosycover · 08/11/2023 18:38

Ffs get a grip.

Whitegrenache · 08/11/2023 19:07

CountryStore · 08/11/2023 17:10

A 3 year old stared at you? And you've been shaken all day? 😳

Agree!! How can someone be that bothered by a pre schooler staring at them

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4 year olds Behaviour & development Families General parenting
Original poster
Lollyloup83 · 08/11/2023 19:09

Thank you to those for the genuinely reassuring replies! The others I am experienced enough on mumsnet to ignore and move on 😂

DS is and has always been hard work. I'm finding we're getting a lot more attitude now and because he's my first DC I struggle to know what's standard. All I know is my parents think he's really naughty, and so do we.

DH and I try and do our best with him, we've always tried to be consistent with the discipline, but equally to pick our battles, really praise the good, eye contact and explain calmly when he's been bad and explain the consequences etc etc.
i have read every single article that comes up on Google in probably the first 3 pages of results for how to deal with a difficult toddler etc.

He does not have ADHD and he's not showing any signs of ASD, he is basically just naturally a little git. Very sweet as well at times, although not very often, but he does have it in him.

Anyway, I guess what I'm hoping for is someone to tell me a 4yo boy who has always been hard work, might, just might! Turn into a nice young lad...

OP posts:
Moonshine160 · 08/11/2023 19:11

He’s trying to get a reaction. He isn’t trying to intimidate or control you. He’s 3.

Dotcheck · 08/11/2023 19:13

SeulementUneFois · 08/11/2023 17:02

Definitely lots of people will be around in a minute to tell you that you're being silly, he's just a child etc.

However there are lots of horrible people in the world, depending on your political views from Boris to Putin, plus all the abusive men we read about on MN every day.
They didn't become horrible on their 18th or 25th birthday.

Some are congenitally so - born this way.

Er, how does that prove nature over nurture?

NuffSaidSam · 08/11/2023 19:16

Has he been watching Paddington? He's a famous proponent of the hard stare. I don't think Paddington's a psychopath so you're probably ok.

I would examine your feeling towards him though. Everyone thinking he's naughty/a little git is probably not an ideal base to parent from.

How is he at school/nursery?

NuffSaidSam · 08/11/2023 19:17

Hubblebubble · 08/11/2023 17:09

@Rjahdhdvd my mother and her sister were both raised the same way. One is horrible and one isn't. Some people are psychopaths. It's a neurodiversity, nothing to do with how a person is raised.

No two people ever have exactly the same upbringing, even in the same family.

secondfavouritesocks · 08/11/2023 19:18

I find 3 the hardest age. My horrendous 3 year old has been gorgeous since 4 up, and is now 24.

Your baby is a lovely little boy who is exploring the family set up and working out where he is in the chain of command - he will learn! One of mine made me a reward chart at not much older than this, with special treats if I was "good" and got stars! It was quite sweet, and I still have it nearly 30 years later, but it also makes the point that they made a serious bid for the leadership of the home and actually thought they were entitled to be the one judging and controlling me!

They all do it in one way or another - just make sure he keeps being shown that you are the parent, the funny, reliable loving parent but definitely the boss!

Madamum18 · 08/11/2023 19:25

But then, he said "well I'm going to stare at you then!" And he stared at me like an adult trying to scare me - it was horrible and I've been really shaken by it all day.

I would suggest saying "Oh well hope it doesn't get too boring for you!" shrug your shoulders and then completely ignore him and don't make any eye contact.

He is looking for a reaction in a lot of what he does I think and I suspect you are giving it to him ..so he will do more to get more reaction and will be feeing very powerful as a 4 year old in one way although he may also feel a bit disorientated by the effectiveness of his behaviour to get a "reaction".

And please please don't start thinking he is not a very nice person. He is 4 years old and a lot of what you describe is flexing his independent muscles, is not about you, its about him.

Relevant Consequences to help him make connections between his behaviour and his life experiences can be helpful:
eg He wont let you change him. When relevant find consequences. eg "if you don't get changed we will not be able to go out to the park/Ben's house/ the shops to buy.....!! So its entirely up to you!" Then walk away and leave him to it or if he starts screaming/tantrum etc just sit, keep repeating etc , not explaining further just repeating consequence.

eg Refusing to eat breakfast at the table .."OK. Well its up to you as we have breakfast at the table and nowhere else so if you choose to not have breakfast that is your decision!" And walk away ...etc etc as above

eg "Your not coming to my party" is standard 4 year old stuff. ..."Ok. Well that's a shame but hope you have a nice time without me" And walk away etc etc as above

Hope you feel ok with things soon Flowers

Leah5678 · 08/11/2023 19:47

I'm sorry but you are too sensitive if a three year old staring at you has upset you this much, perhaps you have other mental health issues? But it doesn't mean he's going to be a bad person he's only three. When mine were three and tried that I just laughed at them

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 19:51

You can't tell if he has ADHD or ASD at 3/4, it's too young. Challenging behaviour which isn't responsive to standard behavioural management is a red flag for both, to keep an eye on for when he is older. But could be totally age appropriate and he's just on the challenging end of the scale.

I would recommend this as it's good for working on specific behaviours which are bothering you, designed for use specifically with challenging children and it's evidence based and free :)

https://www.coursera.org/learn/everyday-parenting/home/welcome

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 19:52

Also the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" is perfect for this age and very accessible. I basically refer to this as my parenting bible :D

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 19:54

But I do feel if you're ready to write off your child as "maybe just a horrible person" then it's worth exploring whether or not they have an underlying reason for their behaviour... Confused

JustAMinutePleass · 08/11/2023 20:09

Before 6 sleep is as important as food for their development. How much is he getting? DS can be a git if he gets less than 12 hours a day and despite being nearly 4 he still takes 2 naps some days. Review his bedtime, review his sugar intake and diet, and try putting him to bed an hour earlier to see if it helps.

Also, this type of behaviour is NORMAL. The kids who turn out to be evil later in life tend to be as sweet as pie at this age as there’s usually something (an abusive parent usually) preventing them from acting out: acting out and testing boundaries is normal at this age, not good behaviour!

Ididivfama · 08/11/2023 20:10

PosyPrettyToes · 08/11/2023 17:20

My DS is profoundly autistic. He bites, he kicks, he rips my hair out at the roots. It has never once occurred to me to think he's a horrible person, and tbh that's a really weird reaction to have to your very young child. Of course he's not a horrible person. He's a threenager, and you are wildly projecting here.

Thank you. I’m in the same boat as you and find threads like this nuts.

Ididivfama · 08/11/2023 20:11

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 19:51

You can't tell if he has ADHD or ASD at 3/4, it's too young. Challenging behaviour which isn't responsive to standard behavioural management is a red flag for both, to keep an eye on for when he is older. But could be totally age appropriate and he's just on the challenging end of the scale.

I would recommend this as it's good for working on specific behaviours which are bothering you, designed for use specifically with challenging children and it's evidence based and free :)

https://www.coursera.org/learn/everyday-parenting/home/welcome

Edited

You definitely can

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 21:56

Are you talking about extremely severe cases e.g. with global developmental delay, where the signs are clear before that age? I know those exist. I just mean you can't rule it out at 3/4, especially when there is challenging behaviour, which is one of the earlier signs especially where there is no speech or motor delay. The OP clearly doesn't have a severe case with global delays where it's obvious enough to diagnose, because she's said that he "doesn't have it" which I just think isn't possible to definitively say at that age.

Rjahdhdvd · 09/11/2023 07:23

@Hubblebubble sorry but siblings do not grow up in an identical environment. The age difference and different positions in the family mean they have different experiences of childhood, sometimes subtle and sometimes significant

Spirro · 09/11/2023 07:27

He’s three and he gave you a Paddington Hard Stare. I really don’t think it’s anything to worry about!

BrassOlive · 09/11/2023 07:43

This poor bloody kid, being pegged as bad by his whole family before he's even reached his fifth birthday. He's got no chance.

And you're going to tell me you're justified to talk about him in this way because you read a few articles on Google? Maybe you're the horrible person here, not your son?

Ididivfama · 09/11/2023 10:09

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 21:56

Are you talking about extremely severe cases e.g. with global developmental delay, where the signs are clear before that age? I know those exist. I just mean you can't rule it out at 3/4, especially when there is challenging behaviour, which is one of the earlier signs especially where there is no speech or motor delay. The OP clearly doesn't have a severe case with global delays where it's obvious enough to diagnose, because she's said that he "doesn't have it" which I just think isn't possible to definitively say at that age.

No I’m not. There are some very clear signs without global delay that are more than just ‘challenging behaviour’. Extreme repetitive behaviour, stimming, sensory overload, inability to interact socially appropriately. I can go on. If you have a child like this you can spot them a mile away from a group of NT children. You can get a private assessment that is done much more quickly than the NHS but is also accepted by the NHS and means the child can have a better start at school and life.

Dont know anything about autism with the OP’s child. The whole thread seems very silly. This is in answer to your post about asd children generally.

SleepingStandingUp · 09/11/2023 10:13

SeulementUneFois · 08/11/2023 17:02

Definitely lots of people will be around in a minute to tell you that you're being silly, he's just a child etc.

However there are lots of horrible people in the world, depending on your political views from Boris to Putin, plus all the abusive men we read about on MN every day.
They didn't become horrible on their 18th or 25th birthday.

Some are congenitally so - born this way.

Nonsense. Children aren't born evil. You're basically saying well people like that Adolf, it wasn't really his fault was it, he had that genocide gene on his 14th chromosome. You know it makes them a little extreme!!

Some kids have shit childhoods which causes emotional damage that will never be repaired because they never have the right support.

Some kids will be raised with love in a good home and will go on to be bad people.
Some people will just make bad choices that have severe consequences.

SleepingStandingUp · 09/11/2023 10:16

LBFseBrom · 08/11/2023 17:28

The only time my child was ever grumpy was when he was sickening for something. Maybe that is the same for your son. Was it a one off?

Oh how I wish the only timey kids were grumpy is when they're ill!!

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/11/2023 10:21

Oliotya · Yesterday 17:29
**
Honestly, 3 year old boys are awful. My almost 4 year old DS can be a menace. But, truly, a 3 year old isn't capable of being horrible. He's just testing boundaries and, likely copying something he's seen someone else “

Our 3 year old boy was a delight. Our 3 year old daughter, on the other hand …. 🤣 Both fabulous adults now.

Perfectly normal pushing of boundaries, OP. Ignore, ignore, ignore.

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