Isolated only child - could moving help?

[TempsPerdu]

Also posted in One-Child Families, but adding here for traffic

Hello wise people of Mumsnet. I posted on here last year about my 5-year-old daughter not really settling at school, but now things have come to a bit of a head and we need to make some kind of decision.

We currently live in a busy London suburb. We are well integrated into the community as in DP and I have plenty of friends, but this hasn’t translated into DD having friends. There are no local cousins (only one overseas), close school/uni friends had their DC much earlier so they’re all now teens, and local friends and neighbours have mostly boys. Basically, we have a social network here but DD doesn’t. This evening, for example, I’m facing a choice of taking DD out trick or treating on her own, or in a pack of about half a dozen boys her own age who will all ignore her; there are no similarly aged girls that we know well enough to hook up with.

DD started school last year and that has become another issue. The school itself is good, but she’s ended up in a class of very girly girls who she hasn’t really bonded with - DD is into science and football and Pokémon while (without exception at the moment) the other girls are into princesses and unicorns. The ability range is also unusually skewed so that other than DD the higher attaining and more motivated children are all boys, and she is working mainly with them. At play times she is currently playing mainly with much older girls (Year 4 upwards) rather than her peers, as they have so little common ground. We requested last year that DD change class, as she got on better with the girls from the parallel class, but the school was not open to this idea.

It all feels very isolated, and I worry about the future. Every time I read an only child thread, multiple people advise organising play dates and sleepovers and taking friends on holidays - we are totally open to this and when opting to have just the one child we naively thought this is what would happen. But circumstances have dictated otherwise; since the pandemic we’ve noticed people increasingly retreating into their families, and living in London people lead very fast-paced and stressful lives with little time for casual socialising.

We have wondered for a while whether moving to somewhere less busy and pressurised might help DD to make more settled friendships. We have a market town in mind, just outside of a smaller city. We know that it isn’t a utopia, but there seems to be more community engagement, a slightly slower pace of life, there’s only one secondary school so everyone goes there (as opposed to here, where secondary schooling is quite competitive and fragmented), it’s safer so children wouldn’t be ferried around by car so much etc. We just want a more relaxed lifestyle, where DD gets to make the close friendships that she’s going to need in the future.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Has anyone been in a similar boat? How have parents of only children managed to forge a social network in the absence of extended family? Any input massively appreciated, as we are feeling increasingly unsettled about all this.

Has you dd said she's lonely wants friends? As some children are happy not having loads of friends.

What about local groups for her to go to? Such as rainbows or beavers? Do the teachers say she doesn’t play with anyone? In my experience my 2 girls kept changing the older they got and went through different friend groups at school. 5 is still young. My oldest is 10 and her friends are completely different from the ones in reception. I would only be worried if she is sitting on her own every day at school. If she is still playing and happy enough i would just leave her.

@Ohdearwhatnow4 That’s a good question. DD is only just 6 and not actually unhappy at the moment (she likes school because she’s basically a bit of a geek and loves learning). Until now she’s been fine, as we’ve been able to shelter her from most things, but as she gets that bit older and friendships loom a bit larger she is beginning to notice things - realises that she hasn’t been invited for many play dates/parties; asks why she can make new friends at the holiday club she goes to but not at school etc.

I do think she has introvert tendencies, and her class teacher says (and we agree) that she is going to want a few close friendships rather than being in a big gang. But I can’t see where those close friendships are going to come from at the moment.

I also think she is beginning to get labelled as a bit of a ‘quirky oddball’ within her class for being the one who loves learning and doesn’t conform to the other girls’ interests. She has always been very inquisitive, verbal and articulate for her age, and the more time she spends alone with adults during school holidays etc, the more marked this becomes and the more distinct she seems from her peers.

I don't think many children have settled friendships aged five -- DS (only child, all family overseas) certainly didn't until later on.

What strikes me in your post is that it all sounds very sex-segregated, which is unusual for that age group, in my experience. DS (now 11) was certainly playing with both boys and girls regularly at that age. Between about 8 and 10 or so (after a move between countries when he was 7, just before the first Covid lockdown), his friends were very much boys only, but that's changing again now.

If your daughter has more in common with the boys in her class, why doesn't she play with them?

@Drinagh Yes! You are spot on with your point about the gender divide, and I genuinely don’t know why this is. I actually used to teach the school year DD is in now about a decade or so ago, and yes, boys and girls interacted much more then. But I’ve noticed even since DD was in nursery a very strong delineation between boys and girls, and in DD’s class boys and girls will barely talk to each other.

I wonder if there’s been some very strong conditioning going on at home during the pandemic, as the girls are almost uniformly stereotypically ‘girly’ and the boys are generally very ‘macho’ - I’ve also noted fewer ‘gentle boys’ into Lego and drawing and science than when I was teaching. Schools are now almost exclusively unicorn/mermaid themed for the girls and football themed for the boys, with none of the opposite sex being invited.

Anyway, DD does occasionally play football at lunch with some of the boys but they will always put her in goal and won’t pass to her so she gets bored and fed up. A few of them are already signed up to football academies and take their football VERY seriously, so it’s not really seen as just a fun playtime kickabout.

@Spename84 DD does Rainbows, swimming, choir and football (only girl to about 25 boys). She loves all of them but none of these have really translated into friendships, as they are quite fleeting weekly encounters and very adult led so little downtime for the kids to actually chat and interact. It’s all very ‘ferry to activity in car, do activity and then ferry home in car’ again, and you don’t really get to know any of the other parents either.

I don’t have much faith in DD’s teachers knowing who she plays with tbh; she is a ‘good girl’ so not really on their radar, and is very confident with adults so doesn’t come across as shy and rarely makes a fuss about anything. Her current teacher has tried to match DD up with a couple of the quieter girls in the class, but at the moment their interests diverge hugely and they are both very young-acting compared to DD - much less mature and verbal.

When Dd was that age I found I had to make friends with the parents to organise play dates and stuff, which then led to playing in school. Dd now has a lovely group of friends, all different interests, all different abilities.

Are you making the effort (sorry if that sounds rude! No idea how else to word it) to host/organise things outside of school? Even just asking someone you chat to if they want to take the kids to the park?

I used to take my DD Trick treating, we both dressed up...we always went alone.
My daughter liked her own space tbh when little, she had little in common with other girls in her class. I started taking her out to more 'adventurous stuff'...go carting, even survival for kids in woodland, she loved it. Maybe dont try to overly instigate friendships...she either will or wont . btw my grandson same. He likes his space though

In my experience friendships at your DD’s age are quite fleeting, we are in London too and there’s a lot of churn in schools with kids leaving/new ones joining. They are also finding their feet and what they like - I’m pretty sure a lot of girls in my DD’s class like Pokémon, they all grow out of princesses and unicorns fairly quickly!

Is there any children she wants to play with or likes particularly? If yes I would focus on organising a play date with them, see how that goes.

Kindly, I wonder if you might be worrying too much. Why do you think she might have been labeled an ‘odd ball’? Has someone said something??

@Ostryga Ha no worries - I can absolutely see why this is an important question! I think this is part of what’s making us what to move on actually; I couldn’t be any more proactive or invested in the school - I’m a parent helper, a governor, have attended social stuff and even covered a couple of the parents’ childcare by taking their DC for the strike days last year.

But none of it has paid off because ultimately (and not intending to judge anyone at all), everyone is ultimately so busy juggling full time jobs and paying London mortgages that no one really has time for casual play dates or just hanging out. Holidays are difficult because no one is ‘from’ where we live and everyone disappears off to visit family elsewhere. And you can tell from messages on our class WhatsApp group that many people are struggling to make time for and organise their own family life, let alone have bandwidth for other people’s. We just wondered if this is predominantly a London thing, or whether it’s universal!

Speaking as an only child, they tend to seem more academically able very young because of more time alone and reading, and less heavily dependent on being in the thick of things at school. This will settle down as she gets older. Moving out of London is not the answer. At this age everyone is very parent led so you need to be the one to spin up friendships with some of the parents at school and do the running around so that she hangs out with kids outside school.

London has infinitely more to offer in terms of extracurricular activities than any market town - I would be very cautious of removing yourself from these resources. My life ground to a halt when my parents did this at 10 and suddenly the music school, drama school, art club and all the other brilliant activities I did as an introverted only child ground to a halt because they just weren’t readily available out in the sticks, at least not without endless driving.

Force yourself to get involved in school (the PTA is a quick route to this) and make friends with other parents, and you will be able to build a social network for your daughter. Don’t just leave her to it - it’s great that you want to shimmy things along for her.

I think you are overthinking it. I have a dd who is 6 and we also live in London, she mentioned to me having friends in school and has been invited to parties (not just class ones) but came out of school the other day with a letter about a friendship circle as they think she’s struggling with friendships which surprised me as she’s always mentioning friends! 🤷🏻‍♀️ We live in a part of London where no kids play out so we don’t see any kids around here unfortunately. I do think as others have said it a lot about who the parents are friends with especially at this age, are you friendly with the other parents? I wouldn’t move personally as I’ve heard of children in village schools with only 5 girls in the class and not having any friends, At least in London you will get new people more often joining, there has been a few new kids in my daughters class.

@Jackiebrambles The ‘oddball’ comment thing - DD was in another class parent’s group for a recent trip, and that parent made a point of telling me later that she had found DD oddly inquisitive and precocious, she was ‘too interested’ in the museum exhibit and too confident in talking to adults, and ‘it must be because she is an only child’.

DD is also ignored a lot by the other children (I’ve witnessed this myself), often I think because they don’t understand what she’s trying to tell them, rather than because they’re being actively nasty - she’ll try and share a joke with them or tell them something about animals or space, because that’s what interests her, and they’ll just look blank and walk away. According to DD literally all the other girls play is princesses and mummies and babies - no idea if this is really the case but if it is it’s clearly a lack of common ground thing rather than a rudeness thing.

Since we’ve been in Year 1 and the whole class parties have tailed off we haven’t been invited to any of the girls’ parties or asked for any play dates (which I suppose is fair enough as DD isn’t actually playing with any of them, but still makes me feel bad for her!)

@BananaSlug We are friends with some of the other parents (a few from the same NCT group and nursery) but while we are still close ourselves, they all have very ‘boyish’ boys who now won’t interact with DD other than very grudgingly (will talk to her in school but largely blank her out of school).

With the other girl parents at school, we either have nothing whatsoever in common with them (just as DD has nothing whatsoever in common with their children) or they are impossible to pin down (working FT, never doing pick up, away during school holidays etc). So impossible to make a genuine connection.

@Passerillage Thanks for your very considered post and personal input - lots of food for thought and a few things I probably needed to hear. DD does sound like your ‘typical’ bookish, cerebral only child against that context (I’m quite bookish too, but not an only!) Don’t mean to demonise London, as I know it has a lot to offer, even though we don’t live in one of the more exciting or desirable areas.

What do you do, though, if the other parents can’t or won’t engage in your efforts? Ours isn’t a pushy London school with lots of engaged and invested parents - there are a few of us in DD’s class, but it’s largely me and my own group of friends (the aforementioned parents of boys who now won’t play with DD). It’s a very mixed demographic and many of the others - and notably the ‘girl parents’ - are barely managing and not very engaged with school/education/friendships at all.

Might it perhaps be a change of school, rather than location, that’s needed to meet likeminded children/parents?

You don't have to make a genuine connection with the other parents.

Yes, friends at that age are often parent led.

It doesn't actually sound like your daughter has a serious problem - she isn't currently into the fad that the rest of the girls are, it they will grow out of that and there will be a new one.

If you want her to play with the other girls at school then you need to be friendly with those parents who are available. I know you said that you don't have a genuine connection with them - well, no. You're very unlikely to find deep friendships in the people who are parents of kids in your choler's class. But if you want your daughter to play with them and have play dates etc then you need to be friendly with them.

If you do want her to be able to play with the other kids, then it's worth spending some time doing/watching what they are into.

In the same way that with boys, being able to play football to a minimum level is a basic social skill at school, for her if you want her to be able to play with the other girls, she needs to know about princesses etc etc etc.

DS was like this at primary. Though he would discuss things with adults, specialist subjects and found girls easier than boys. He found it easiest to make friends with the isolated children who were different but often this was partly via me / the parents - a lot were Asian children as they were also often isolated at school, subject to unkind comments, studious and lonely. The mothers sometimes had experienced the same and often were too shy/fear of rejection to initiate contact but if you ask for a playdate you'ld often find it was the first one they had. I used to invite parent/s and child. Other friends were adopted children. He was diagnosed recently with autism though when we took him to a private school they said they had plenty like him they call quirky. Its hard to tell at this age but would keep an eye out for any signs. We moved areas end of his y6 thinking he would be better in a less big secondary outstanding rated, big mistake, had a completely different system of support, all school support taken away and knew no-one, had full-time TA at primary and lovely, caring school. I would advise against moving though sometimes schools can differ. If we had moved next to the school which is great for SN think it would have worked out.

We also joined David Lloyd at primary and went after school and that was great, both in terms of us all socialising and keeping fit. But do need to use it 3 plus times a week to get value for money and think prices have gone up a lot. We paid £200 a month for 4 of us but that got 10 hours a week of clubs for him. Lots of children there who didn't fit in.

@TempsPerdu what a shitty thing for that parent to say, or even had the right to say 😡
'The ‘oddball’ comment thing - DD was in another class parent’s group for a recent trip, and that parent made a point of telling me later that she had found DD oddly inquisitive and precocious, she was ‘too interested’ in the museum exhibit and too confident in talking to adults, and ‘it must be because she is an only child’.

No child is 'too' anything. Your child obviously has been raised brilliant.. inquisitive, etc. Fook that parent. 'Too' inquisitive...'too' interested...'too' precocious...is this woman on drugs?!!!. Fist bump to those kids who are deemed as 'too' anything. Champion your girls, theres never 'too' anything.. they're finding themselves.
Im sure if you replied to that parent that her child was 'not enough' sge would not be happy. Fook their noise.
I love 'too' kids...it does show a confidence , which kids need.

@Octavia64 Thanks for replying. Don’t get me wrong; I am friendly with the other parents as far as possible - always smiley and chatty at school pick up, going to every social event I can etc. I admit though that I do struggle to make small talk with some parents who come from very different backgrounds from myself (and I believe the feeling is mutual).

Our school is very mixed, and school gate cliques have now formed - I’m in the ‘middle class professional’ group, with many of the boy parents I knew from nursery, and a lot of the girl parents are very much not in this camp. I definitely get the impression that they find me and the way I talk etc a bit ‘posh’ and serious, especially since, as a governor, I know quite a lot about school life. I have genuinely tried, and so has DP (although he’s a huge introvert and massively out of his comfort zone making small talk) but I can’t identify with many of the things these parents talk about and vice-versa. There’s also quite a significant language barrier in some cases.

Re the boy/girl stereotypes, I’m afraid I’m not prepared to push outdated gender stereotypes on to an unwilling DD for the sake of her ‘fitting in’. I just find it sad that things seem to have regressed so much since I was a child that boys and girls are in separate silos at 5 and you can’t join the ‘girl tribe’ unless you like pink and princesses (plus in our school’s case it’s not just a case of liking these things, but being obsessed with them at the exclusion of everything else).

Doesn’t fit in with other girls
Might seem like a “quirky oddball”
Prefers older children to peers
Intelligent, geeky, loves learning
Not invited on play dates
Introverted
Verbal / articulate
Socially excluded / ignored by other kids
Struggles to form friendships
Precocious

You’ve just described a textbook autistic girl. And I’m sure you’ll be shocked and say “but she makes eye contact, and she’s social… she wants to be social”. Autistic girls can do that too.

Children are so good at spotting neurodivergence in other kids. Way better than adults (and even a lot of professionals). There could be something else at the root of your daughter’s social struggles. I know this because I lived it, and then history repeated with my own daughter.

@Silkiefloof We are already members at David Lloyd! We do like the classes and facilities (it’s been great for DD’s swimming) but again it hasn’t worked for us socially - ours is quite noisy and chaotic - lots of screaming kids running around - and DD isn’t that kind of child at all. They’ve also recently had a big refurb and got rid of the soft play, which DD wasn’t a massive fan of anyway, but was at least a place where DC could hang out without parents - that’s gone now, and so have the casual friendships that the kids struck up while playing.

That’s what I mean I guess - there are so few places now where kids can just hang out and chill and make friends in a relaxed way, without parents helicoptering around, and this makes it hard to those like DD, who don’t have a ready made extended family to fall back on, to develop a strong social network.

Don’t write off meeting up with the boys and their mums outside school, at least for the next couple of years. One on one rather than in a group ideally - appreciate this doesn’t help with tonight but other times.

My DD is similar to yours, and I am friends with a couple of boy mums from her class. They wouldn’t particularly choose to play together in school (the sex divide is strong…) but we hang out outside school, go on day trips etc together and DD and their DSs get on well.

DD didn’t really make strong girl friends in her class until year 3. She sort of bounced around. The girls weren’t girly but the girl dynamic was weird for the first couple of years due to a Queen Bee situation. At one point she played mainly with a group of (really nice) boys. She was never too bothered. In year 3 onwards she found her tribe - mostly bookworms like her.

It might be worth looking round other schools though in our case there was only one primary you could get into fortunately for us it was fine and issues came at secondary. If you can afford it maybe look round a private primary if she's quiet and well behaved and intelligent. I think some of those go on longer and have things kids mix in after school. I regret not sending my DS private for secondary and staying in London. I much prefer not being in London and DD its been great for but DS moving was a disaster schools wise.

We’re in a naice market town on the edge of the countryside near a major city up north. Most of the parents here are also working all the time, classes are still ferry to and from with not much time to socialise. It’s still hard to make friends.

Two thing that occurred to me from your post: 1) make sure that if you do go out of London, you go somewhere where there are the classes your studious geeky child will actually like. Mine would love to be doing parkour and rock climbing but all the classes are miles away, and there’s very little in the way of STEM classes. It’s impossible to get into Brownies or Scout squirrels here too. I bet you have a huge choice of classes where you are. Don’t assume it will be the same elsewhere- we didn’t check enough when deciding where to move to.

2. make sure you go to somewhere where there is a good culture of valuing education. We’re just over the border from a grammar area and we have some fantastic and very selective private schools. I can’t speak for everyone but it feels like there’s a big culture of valuing educational attainment here which is good for studious children. A

I was just coming on to say this. My only DD is very similar & also aged 5 & just been diagnosed with autism. A diagnosis doesn’t solve everything but I would be on the look out for signs. We also felt very isolated in terms of friendships for DD OP & are also considering moving out of London but more to be near to family (DD is only really comfortable socialising with my family & isn’t so bothered about her peers).