Do women have it harder these days? To work full time and still be the primary care giver?

[Fra167]

I am 30 and hoping to start a family in the next few years with my partner. I was of primary school age in the 90’s/early 2000’s. My own mother worked part time and was around the house a lot and always the one to take me and pick me up from school etc. I also remember that my friends mothers worked part time too and were always around at school times. To give some context, we were a working-class family, I went to a comprehensive primary school and had one holiday a year in the UK. My parents were sensible money and cut their cloth accordingly, but the mortgage of a nice semi-detached 4 bedroom house etc could be paid mainly on my fathers income.

In contrast, nowadays, it seems that we are a society that relies on two full-time wages just for even the basics, not even talking fancy cars and holidays. But are women still expected to also be the primary caregiver to children and one who takes care of most of the domestic chores? I know it’s brilliant that there have been developments in society that mean that more women can have careers now! But from my point of view, it seems like we are worse off in some ways! I work as a social worker, and I’ve seen so many colleagues working full time with children and being absolutely burnt out and stressed to the max, in a draining job and then going home and giving much needed attention and love to their children!
My partners mum didn’t work, so she did all the cooking, cleaning, life admin, childcare etc. I can foresee that these things would end up becoming more my responsibility! So I’m expected to have to commute to work, then work full time, come home and still be able to have the energy to be able to give the best of myself to my children? Whereas a lot of the women of my mum’s and grandma’s generation were able to prioritise the children because if they did work, it was a bonus to the family income and not essential like it is these days.

I admire and have huge respect for the vast majority of women who work full time and are mothers. I myself, will probably also be working full time or nearly full time once I start a family. I just feel like at some point, something has to give or society needs to catch up and realise that women can’t still be taking on the bigger share of the responsibility of the children and housework if they are also working full time.

My partners mum didn’t work, so she did all the cooking, cleaning, life admin, childcare etc. I can foresee that these things would end up becoming more my responsibility!

My DH's mum was a SAHM and he is an equal partner. Don't marry and have children with someone who doesn't see it all as his job as much as yours.

I've kept my career and, apart from the first couple of years, my sanity. But my expectations of a partner are very high.

Well the answer is, you don’t just do all the cooking, cleaning and child rearing. Your partner should share the role 50/50. If you look at your current partner and think you’ll be doing all the child rearing and housework - don’t have kids with him. It’s that easy. Have higher standards.

I grew up in the 90s and I have much easier than my mum. My mum was a single parent but even if she hadn’t been, when I was born they’d have still needed two salaries. My mum wasn’t able to take me to school or work part time. She had to work full time to keep a roof over our heads. That meant travelling. She was fortunate in that my grandparents helped with looking after me but she had a long commute, would put me to bed and have to cook for herself and clean. By comparison, I have two incomes into my house. A husband does half the child rearing and the housework. We have flexible employers and can manage nursery pick up and drop off between us. We can both work from home for some of the week and we aren’t having to commute long distances everyday.

In previous generations running a home was a very different job - you can’t truly compare life now when we have so much to help us. My mum was like yours but she had to walk or bus to food market or shops (we had no local supermarket). She had no Alevels, no degree, only a landline phone, no Google to help plan her life, no car, no microwave, no online food deliveries, no slow cooker, no dishwasher. We only had an under-counter fridge with a single freezer drawer until I was 9.

i truly don’t think you can compare lifestyles - although I agree that 20 years ago when housing was a lower multiple of salary it was much easier to avoid being a two-income family.

So let’s look at today. It is possible- and in my own home- to have two careers and one or two kids. The early years are tricky - if you are already on maternity leave and breastfeeding it “makes sense” for yours to become the second career. Somehow mums often end up doing all the hard work organising the kids’ lives - my dh is incredibly progressive but there’s no way he’d lift a finger to sort out my kids’ birthday parties or play dates or dental appointments.

But it is possible and desirable for dads to make a real stand - my dh and I have parented my son very equally and I have kept up my career.

it comes down to willpower and good partnering - don’t assume from day 1 you will do it all - and if you’re assuming that maybe you have picked the wrong guy to be dad. It’s not the 1980s any more.

It’s your marriage and family. Together with your DH you set the rules and be clear about your expectations. My ex (he’s an ex for different reasons) had a fairly even split of home and childcare responsibilities and we both worked more or less full time. I am not suited to life as a SAHM and did not enjoy it when I was one for a few months following redundancy.

Try to think of it as a series of tasks that need to be done, and divide them up according to time and skill. In our house we do:
Cooking - mainly DH
Cleaning - cleaner but we keep things tidy
Washing - me
Admin - mainly me
Drop offs and pickups - mixed
Clubs - mixed
Shopping - online
This works for us. It can feel tiring but I’d probably rather go to work and have a modest house than having a 4 bed house and having to do all the housework.

You don’t have kids with someone who sees it as a woman’s job. So if you live together before having kids you should already be splitting household tasks 50 50, are you?
And secondly, do not contemplate cutting your hours or sacrificing your career unless you’re married.

Times have changed and expectations or what is a reasonable lifestyle have gone up.

My mum had to leave her office job when she got married, her employer did not employ married women and those that did would only employ you until you were pregnant.

We got a colour TV in the early 1970s. Every kid in the street came in to see this wonder.

We really got it because my dad worked evenings and it was for my mum who would be stuck at home.

We didn't have a freezer until I was 10 or 11.

My brother and I were fortunate that we had a room each. Lots of children shared rooms.

I work four days a week and my DH five but due to the nature of his job where he starts early and finishes early we are able to split the caregiving equally. I put DC to bed get them up and drop off to school. He then picks up DC, takes them to the park etc and makes dinner. I then come home clean up and help with homework. I realise not everyone can do that but I don't think I could work the hours I do if everything was down to me.

If you are working FT and also doing all the housework, you're with the wrong bloke.

I do 90% of the housework but am PT and if something needs doing DH will do it. Its not just "my job".

I would set your stall out early. Don't let him not contribute to domestic tasks if you intend to work FT when kids come along. Make sure he's doing his fair share NOW.

Otherwise you'll end up like my sister: working 30 hours a week in a demanding job, doing all housework, cooking, childcare runs etc, while her DH swans about doing his own thing. She should've nipped that well in the bud.

This.

You’re the person apparently assuming you’re going to be doing all the housework and most of the childcare. Examine that assumption, and don’t marry someone who thinks that because you have a vagina you will ‘naturally’ be bustling about in an apron.

I don't know anyone who works full time and does 100% of everything else. Most couples we know both work slightly less than full time (0.8 or 0.9) and do a mix of drop offs, childcare and household stuff. I'm a teacher and my husband (who earns more than me) does all school/nursery drop offs and most pick ups too. He cooks 4 nights out of 5 in the week. From working in education, at the school gate, it's a similar number of mums, grandparents and dads.

It's honestly really equal in our house. Dh does school drop off. I do pick up. He cooks more. I clean more. He books stuff like holidays and all the car admin. I book kids activities. We buy big items like furniture together.

My mum was a sahm most of her life. My dad can be a bit selfish and thoughtless and worked really long hours. I don't think my mum was better off at all although she did have a better support network than I do. That may be because her mum retired fairly early and there were lots of other mums in our street who didn't go out to work.

Yes, you really have to pick a decent partner who will share their half of everything- even the mental load. Men often say how enlightened they are but when push comes to shove still hold deeply entrenched societal beliefs about what counts as men and women's work.

My partners mum didn’t work, so she did all the cooking, cleaning, life admin, childcare etc. I can foresee that these things would end up becoming more my responsibility! So I’m expected to have to commute to work, then work full time, come home and still be able to have the energy to be able to give the best of myself to my children?

Thats quite a leap! Why do you think that?

Both my parents worked full time in the late 1960’s since I was around 7 and my 2 slightly older brothers. We had a twin tub washing machine, we were the first family in our road to get an automatic washing machine as my Mum worked at Seeboard, which was like Currys now. My Mum never learnt to drive, but we walked to school on our own from around 7 and sat on our back doorstep until she came home from work. If we needed anything urgent our neighbour was at home. My parents went out every Friday and Saturday nights to a social club, we were left on our own from about the age of 10, we never had babysitters. My Dad paid for everything in running the house and for us, but holidays and anything extra was paid for by my Mum. I think more parents both worked full time more than you would think once children were at school.

If you are working full time and being the primary care giver then you have picked the wrong partner.

Raising children should be shared equally

Are you with a man who thinks child rearing and housework is beneath him? Ditch him then.

DH does everything I need him to and more. I don’t have to give him lists. Or batch cook for him when I travel. And tell him what to do. He even does the ‘mental load’ stuff. He’s a scarily bright accomplished man. So I would have been deeply disappointed if he had been a useless husband and father.

My husband equally helps out - washing, cooking etc Same with the children he has done his fair share of picking up and covering sick days.

It’s a conversation we had before children. I think it helps that his Dad was an hands on Dad - & very much wanted a shared parenting role. My Mum was a working parent - she went from being a teenage Mum with no decent school results, she worked hard to work up to a decent role with a pension.

I have an interesting,.stimulating, well-paid career that I enjoy. So did my DM. I also have a true partner who is there for his kids as much as I am and who pulls his weight around the house. So did my DM.

I would have been bored, understimulated and unhappy, not to mention financially vulnerable, stuck with a "little" part-time job and all the housework. Find someone who's your partner in every way, including the housework and the childcare. That is hugely valuable.

Start as you mean to go on. Make sure before a baby arrives that you aren’t doing everything in the home and continue this after a baby is born including while on maternity leave.
Even when both you and your DH are doing it equally there is still not enough time in the day once you have children

I think it depends on your partner/husband. My dh and I do equal chores in fact he probably does more than me! He works full time, I work part time so I can still pick dc up from school, when they are old another I will increase my hours.

I’m surprised you’re young and asking this question. My child is a young adult. We both worked, there was no primary care giver, we both parented. Equally. It was a choice we made, and I’d not have been with someone who delegated all parenting to me.

Thank you for all of your responses. I suppose I hadn’t considered that we are better off now in terms of the fact that as a society we have more money to be able to go on holiday, do activities, go to the gym etc. I absolutely intend to continue working when I have children. I didn’t do all the training I did to give it all up. As some of you have said, maybe I’m being too soft when I presume that I will be the one that ends up doing most of the domestic duties. I think I’ve just seen it around so much, even with friends of a similar age. Two of my friends are the main breadwinners (no children), both work FT in demanding jobs and still do more of the housework/paying bills etc than their partners!
I think as some of you have said, a lot of it is to do with nipping it in the bud at an early stage and that’s obviously what I need to ensure happens.

Just share all household tasks with your partner
And don’t make a drama out of ‘life admn’
Nobody expected my DH to give up his career when we had DC,and I would never have given up mine

Does that mean you're doing all the housework now? If so why?
If you allow yourself to be the one who does it all that's up to you but it doesn't have to be that way.
Not all 90s mums worked part time...I guess it depends where you live but everyone I knew went back to work full time from 3 to 6 months (6 if you were better off) because you needed 2 wages for the mortgage....im a childminder all children came at 7am and home 6 to 6.30pm 5 days a week until starting school age 5. In the last 10 years most start age 1 and are part time all my cm friends the same hardly any full time children.