A bit worried DS is really behind. Can anyone give me any ideas about what’s normal?

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We have had our checks by the HV, but she didn’t actually meet DS and he does seem very behind with his language/verbal skills compared to some (in all honesty I’d say nearly all) children his age. He is 2 years 9 months, turning 3 just before Christmas.

He has a lot of words and speaks in sentences but these are related word for word from us, he doesn’t really engage in reciprocal conversation or dialogue. So if you ask him a question he won’t really answer or he might answer incorrectly. He used to tell me when he had had a poo but now if I ask him he says yes even if he hasn’t. If you ask him what he wants for dinner he won’t answer at all or if I give choices he says yes or no to the last thing, so if I said do you want pasta or beans he would say yes or no beans.

It does make life tricky as we can’t always communicate. I know there’s a big variation at this age and no one has mentioned any concerns to me (he attends nursery for three days a week and has since he was 10 months). I just assumed by 3 (I know he isn’t there yet!) we’d be talking to one another a bit more?

What do the staff at nursery think? They carry out quite detailed assessments of each child, and should be meeting with you periodically to feed back whether he is meeting the usual milestones. This is really useful because they both know your child well and see loads of other children, and know the normal range of abilities.

We have had parents evenings but haven’t had one for a while, we haven’t had anything as you describe but neither has anyone else I know (different nurseries) so perhaps regional? As I’ve said in my OP, no one has raised any concerns but equally his language seems so limited compared to all the other children his age I know. It isn’t that he can’t speak, it’s more he can’t seem to volunteer speech - he just repeats what you say.

Can he change the format of a sentence? So if you said 'Where is the bus?' Would he ever say 'Bus, where are you?'

Have you had his hearing checked?

I don’t think so @Iamnotastick . It’s hard to know how much he understands. Hearing is absolutely fine and besides he does speak - never stops talking! It’s the reciprocal nature of speaking he isn’t ‘getting’ . If I said ‘are you going to play with Oliver at nursery?’ he wouldn’t say yes I like Oliver. He’s say ‘play with Oliver at nursery.’ I don’t know if that’s normal or not.

Its hard, DD3 is very similar. I never really realised how big the gulf has become until we went to a birthday party for one of the kids at nursery and heard the other kids talking in full conversational manner including referencing past event and understanding concepts.

There are things such as echolalia and gestalt language processing - have a look and see if anything feels familiar to you?

IMO there is never any harm in consulting a speech therapist because the earlier they get some assistance, the better. He may just need some exercises to help broaden his sentence structure? You have nothing to lose by getting a professional opinion!

Thanks - cost could be prohibitive at the moment but could be money well spent.

If the nursery staff haven't raised any concerns OP, I would ask them bluntly whether they've noticed that your DS is behind his peers and whether they think a referral to SALT might be be needed. You already have your suspicions that all is not well, which is enough on its own, but it's worth asking them to see what they say. There are lots of resources online detailing what language milestones your DC should be hitting if their development is progressing at a normal pace. Do you have a Health Visitor? If so, s/he should be able to tell you whether your DC's speech is on track or not.

HV has never met DS. I don’t know if things have changed dramatically since Covid or vary in different parts of the country but we just don’t see or hear from ours, it just isn’t a ‘thing.’

I have ‘concerns’ but I don’t know whether these are just me worrying unnecessarily. I sometimes think I am worrying about nothing and he’s fine and also other times think he’s very behind. Really, both could be true. There’s a parents evening at nursery next month so hopefully can discuss things then. My main worry is based on comparison. I’ve looked online but different websites indicate different milestones.

You could also raise the concern with your GP and see if the health visitor will arrange to see your DS in person?

Nurseries don't always raise concerns unless parents say something first, so if you are worried it's very reasonable to ask them what they think as well.

I can see why you are concerned, it might be something or it might not.

The repeating thing sounds a bit like echolalia, which is a normal part of toddler development but can also be a sign of other things if it persists. I would definitely speak to nursery about it; they experience massive ranges of development speeds and are often quite adept at recognising when children are falling outside of the 'standard' pathway. And I would ask for an actual meeting with HV to discuss. Even if they've been hands-off till now, they should still be available for you when you have concerns.

You should ask the nursery to arrange a time for you to sit down with his key worker to go through their EYFS observations so they can let you know which areas they feel he is at the expected level for, or where he is above (exceeding) or below (emerging).

If you think an NHS referral to SLT would be useful, the nursery can do this for you and in my experience it carried more weight in getting DS seen than the half hearted referral my GP sent at my request.

Thanks, I’ll look into echolalia.

I think he does have good understanding (nursery have also said this)but doesn’t have the language skills. Although he has a lot of words and talks a lot. He wasn’t really able to say all that much until a few months ago and then had the ‘language explosion’ but as I say he doesn’t yet have the skills to have a conversation or tell me things voluntarily. So with the repeating things I might say would you like more tea, or have you had enough? And he says ‘had enough’ but I don’t know if he has, or if he’s just repeating what I say!

In other ways he’s pretty clever - calls out ‘mummy car!’ when he sees one the same make and model as mine, he can recite The Gruffalo off by heart, he is a lovely boy. I don’t exactly think he has any sort of ‘problems’ I just want to know how best to help him. Things like potty training are hard without language.

In terms of what is 'normal' at that age, looking back at videos of DD1 at the same age (2y 9m) she was definitely conversing with us. I have a video of her recording a message for her gran: 'Hi Gran! Wait where is Gran?' Then I say we are making a video for her but she isn't here and she says: 'Will I see gran soon? I miss gran' and I say we will see her soon and to say goodbye to gran and she says 'Bye Gran! See you soon!'

In another one she's drinking some hot chocolate, so I ask what she's got and she says 'I've got hot chocolate!' Then I ask if it's nice and she says 'Yes yummy but can you hold it again, Mummy?'

Her communication was fairly middle of the road I would say among her peers at that time, she wasn't ahead or behind, somewhere smack in the middle, so I'd say that from my frame of reference he sounds a bit behind but if his understanding is good, that's really positive.

Have you looked here?

speechandlanguage.org.uk/talking-point/parents/ages-and-stages/

There's a progress checker here: speechandlanguage.org.uk/talking-point/childs-progress-checker/

@Clefable - I know many children can do that. But I also know there is a huge range of variation in what is considered normal at this age so it’s hard to tell. I do know most children seem able to do what you describe though.

He will answer you but it tends to be closed questions. This morning for example he was reluctant to go to nursery and said ‘no nursery.’ I said ‘why don’t you want to go to nursery?’ (I realise that’s a potentially complex question even many older children would struggle to answer) but he just kept saying no nursery. Eventually he said ‘naughty boys’ but no further detail. I’m not expecting him to say ‘Joseph pushed me and hurt me’ but I don’t know - I know a lot of children chat about their day a bit more.

He will say things like ‘mummy/daddy help’ (usually to liberate some tasty food he’s seen out of reach!) plaintively, he says ‘MY do it!’ (A lot!) he will say ‘daddy read books’ if he wants his dad to do stories before bed (it’s usually me but sometimes he gets bored of mum!)

I had a C section a few weeks ago and I told him I’d had a poorly tummy but it was better now and he says that phrase every time he sees my stomach - he points and says ‘been a bit poorly! But is better now.’ Maybe he’s just trying to make sense of all the changes?

Looking at that progress checker he seems to be OK, even if his language skills are not very sophisticated compared to many. Maybe he just needs more time. His understanding is good but he just hasn’t got the words in the right order.

Yes, if you just had a baby then he's got a lot going on too! DD1 was a bit older when DD2 arrived (about 3y 3m), and there's quite a big difference I think in just six months at that age, looking back at videos and things. Things can certainly change very rapidly with such young kids. But I don't think there's any harm in at least making some enquiries with nursery etc in the meantime. If it is something that may require SALT, then starting as early as possible is best.

Thanks, I’ll go through everything with nursery at parents evening. I do wonder if he just seems so comparatively grown up compared to his new sister and of course he isn’t really but having a new baby has made me realise to an extent I’ve babied him a bit. He has always been a bit ‘lazy’ with speech - he used to point and say ‘uh’ (like a teenager!) to get me to say what he wanted, so for instance he’d point at Iggle Piggle and say ‘uh’ and I’d say Iggle Piggle! When I realised this I started saying ‘what’s the word?’ and he’d say ‘Iggle’ so he could do it, just couldn’t be bothered!

They vary such a lot. I've got 4, I've had the very early walker, the late walker and the two fairly average in the middle, I've also had the same with talking, potty training, eating, swimming, reading, riding a bike. The comforting thing was they all swapped position so the early walker was the late talker etc.

If it is worrying you then speak to the HV/nursery/doctor. I wouldn't wait for parents evening just ask what they think, chances are he's fine. New baby and mummy with a poorly tummy is a lot for a little one to take in.

I cannot remember details with my children…too long ago but I know my 2nd son wasn’t saying many words aged 3 He is an absolutely fine 28 year old .
Granddaughter speech was very slow to take off but once she started speaking her speech improved daily. She is now 3.5 and speech is wonderful but fair to say she was not saying very much when she hit 3 . Try not to worry and just chat and read as normal.

Thanks, this is reassuring. I googled echolalia and the hits were very stressful but reading in more detail I don’t think he has this as such, he just repeats things because that’s how he is learning. He does answer questions (usually with No but that’s the age I think!) but I suppose I’m hoping he’ll soon have a bit more detail and as someone said awareness. For instance when we drive to the town centre we go by a tyre shop and he always gets excited and shouts ‘wheel shop!’ But wouldn’t ask eg ‘when are we next going past the wheel shop mummy?’

I think nurseries can be a bit blase about langauage actually.
If the child is talking I am not sure they always tune in and work out ow they are talking.
I had this recently with a family I support informally. When I started asked the sort of questions you are asking they suddenly upped their game and that has mad a big difference.
I would ask for a meeting and talked through what your concerns are as you have said here.
Talk through the lack of conversational response.

One of our sons is 3 and he has just started putting 4)5 words together and no problems other wise but daily he is speaking more now

I'd be wondering about ASD OP, it's not necessarily obvious at this age but echolalia is common. The fact that he can recognise other cars of the same make and model and is interested enough to point them out + the reciting of Gruffalo just makes me wonder.

The way he uses language just reminds me of my own son and others I have worked with with ASD - I also really struggled with potty training. It might not be of course, but worth just keeping in mind, ds wasn't diagnosed till 10 as everything was just put down to his age by me/nursery/school.