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Not a rant, genuinely curious - breastfeeding

87 replies

DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 19:18

I combi fed my baby who’s just turning 1, and I’m so confused by some of the attitudes towards bottle feeding that I’ve come across now she’s turning 1…

  1. Why is a woman who breastfeeds her baby until 2 or older praised and encouraged, but I have to take my baby off formula ASAP now she’s 1? I am cutting down to once a day before bed but I’m just genuinely really confused. If it’s supposed to be an alternative to breast milk, why is it so so bad that she still gets some milk past age 1?

  2. The whole thing about the bottles and their teeth. Surely if the majority of modern bottles are designed off a woman’s nipple (“closer to nature” etc) then the kids getting breastfed would be having this big panic about getting buck teeth. As they’re supposed to be designed to be as close to the real thing as possible?? I just truly don’t get the panic about transitioning from bottles to sippy cup so soon. She will only go to bed on a bottle so I’m not giving that up yet.

Genuinely curious, have come across a lot of weird attitudes towards this!

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Mourningmorningsleep · 11/09/2023 20:45

These attitudes are all stupid. Do what works for you and ignore the lot of it. Milk is not bad and there's no need to take it away if you don't want to,any adults drink milk too remember. Formula is just overpriced milk, switch to regular milk if your child likes milk because it's less faff and they no longer need all supplements in the formula.

Vallmo47 · 11/09/2023 20:46

Oh the judgment breastfeeding mums get if they breastfeed a child past a certain age… the recommendation is 2 where I’m from (Scandinavia) but I was outright told I was being “disgusting”.

As for the rest, I’d wean off in your own time but it’s a good idea to teach little one to hold a sippy cup etc until they’re ready for a normal cup.

DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 20:46

AnIndianWoman · 11/09/2023 20:41

I’m breastfeeding my preschooler but not only can I never talk about it without people accusing me of being a pervert or weird (despite the fact that many preschoolers still have a dummy / bottle before bed) I had to train my DS to refer to it in a way that nobody else could understand.

As for why you need to take a child off formula once they hit 12 mths - unlike with breastmilk the vitamins in formula are no longer enough so it just gives empty calories after a point (eg kids on formula past 1 are more likely to get rickets etc) . Cows milk or fortified plant based milks are much more nutritious from that perspective. Plus there’s the money side of it. Why on earn would you want to keep paying when there were cheaper and healthier alternatives?

Haha, rickets. That’s a new one!

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DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 20:50

Mourningmorningsleep · 11/09/2023 20:45

These attitudes are all stupid. Do what works for you and ignore the lot of it. Milk is not bad and there's no need to take it away if you don't want to,any adults drink milk too remember. Formula is just overpriced milk, switch to regular milk if your child likes milk because it's less faff and they no longer need all supplements in the formula.

Thanks, tbh I should have known better than post about breastfeeding on Mumsnet. No room for nuance! Yeah she does get cows milk and loves it, my question was just about the general attitude that as soon as they hit 12 months they need to stop formula ASAP.

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sexnotgenders · 11/09/2023 20:51

mightymam · 11/09/2023 19:47

I BF my toddler while pregnant and once the new baby was here. Even the nurses were shocked. I remember a nurse at hospital stood and stared when I was BF my toddler when I went in for a check-up! Shitty attitudes exist on both sides.

This is absolutely my experience. I'm currently tandem feeding my 2.5 year old and my 8 week old and I have never felt more judged, including from medical professionals. I have genuinely been made to feel like a freak for the simple act of feeding my children. Apparently milk made for a baby cow is more appropriate for my kids than the milk my own body makes for them. Someone please explain that fucked up logic?!! 🤷🏼‍♀️

Mourningmorningsleep · 11/09/2023 20:52

Also I BF my nearly 3 year old (nights only) and I didn't tell people past 18 months because I can't stand of the look of pure tragedy in their eyes. The eye rolls. The awkward "oh". The hint that it's a bit weird. People do not have nice things to say about it. It's mean, it's just milk and is what we evolved to do. I'm weaning, very slowly.

Whawillthefuturebring · 11/09/2023 20:54

I don’t think it’s a need more it isn’t needed anymore, the advice is to drop bottles and formula is expensive.

I’ve recently stopped bf DD2, not longer before her 4th birthday but we were only feeding at home so few people were aware that she was still bf.

DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 20:55

sexnotgenders · 11/09/2023 20:51

This is absolutely my experience. I'm currently tandem feeding my 2.5 year old and my 8 week old and I have never felt more judged, including from medical professionals. I have genuinely been made to feel like a freak for the simple act of feeding my children. Apparently milk made for a baby cow is more appropriate for my kids than the milk my own body makes for them. Someone please explain that fucked up logic?!! 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh wow! Do you mind me asking where you live? It’s just so wildly different to my experience but I’m in London

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110APiccadilly · 11/09/2023 20:56

I think the thing about stopping formula at 1 is that you can replace it with cow's milk (assuming baby will take cow's milk) and that's cheaper, easier to prepare, and no worse nutritionally as long as they're having a balanced diet, so why not? But if you're happy to give formula longer then I don't see why you shouldn't.

No idea about the teeth thing! I'd tend to agree with you in that I don't see why it's different.

FWIW, I breastfed both of mine to just past 1 (stopped before 13 months with both) and was relieved to stop as I didn't really like doing it. I didn't hate it - I'd have bottle fed if I'd hated it - but I didn't enjoy it at all. So I suppose that's more or less analogous to someone who switches from formula to cow's milk at 1 because it's cheaper and easier.

roarrfeckingroar · 11/09/2023 20:57

Because breast milk adapts as babies grow. It provides so much more in terms of nutrients and antibodies tailored to the child.

I think to imply that not breastfeeding is judged in this country is a bit nuts. The breastfeeding rate is low. Support isn't good.

Lukewarmtea24 · 11/09/2023 20:59

Another one who’s never had weird comments breastfeeeding past 12 months for both my children - loads of people around me were the same and everyone in the same boat! Have only ever had positive comments from health visitors / GPS etc.

also combi fed the second and he had a bottle of formula (cows milk in later months) at night until at least 2.5… do what works for you

faban · 11/09/2023 21:01

The bottle issue is because If theyre taking a bottle to bed that's constant milk exposure. Google bottle caries

Sprogonthetyne · 11/09/2023 21:02

I believe it's because nipples and bottles are not actually that similar, despite the advertising. Nipples are much softer and also stretchy, so they go really far back into the mouth, when bany feeds so the milk is released behind the teeth. If they made bottles as soft and flexible, they would brake all the time, so they make them stiffer and more sturdy.

There's also a numbers game, where with breastfeeding the x% increase I tooth decay is ofest by y% decrease in illness, so overall more good then harm. Whereas with formula there are less benefits to counteract the negatives.

Enko · 11/09/2023 21:07

DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 19:56

This is a bit of a weird post. Are you suggesting that by bottle feeding I didn’t read or educate myself? Just seems a bit of an odd statement to make? I wasn’t asking advice about whether or not to do it, I was questioning the odd assumptions and attitudes I’ve come across about it.

No that's not what I am suggesting.

What I am saying is we all make choices that work for us in that moment. Sometimes those choices (like allowing our child a MacDonald or sweets ) are choices we know technically are not the best to do but we make them because it fits for that day.

Other times we make choices that we later discover we could have made different better (for us) choices -- that may be the parent who changes their parenting style as they feel as they have read more widely a completely different style works better.. Could be the parents who decide to change their diet (just examples) There can be many things we discover as we parent we would rather do differently.

For me where the issue comes is when we stop educating ourselves. When we stop questioning and stop finding out more information. My children are older now I am still questioning and working on information on how best to support them and be there for them. I do not always get it right. I keep striving to.

I was not discussing formula or breastmilk here as they come with a whole other variants such as how supported mother-baby dias were when they started out. If there were supply issues and if the baby had a tongue tie. If the mother didn't feel comfortable with feeding, if there were any outside influences and do not even get me started on the appalling maternity and paternity pay/leave situation we have in the UK. They are also highly emotive as a subject.

There will always be odd attitudes to things. You need to make the choice that is right for your family.

DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 21:10

Lukewarmtea24 · 11/09/2023 20:59

Another one who’s never had weird comments breastfeeeding past 12 months for both my children - loads of people around me were the same and everyone in the same boat! Have only ever had positive comments from health visitors / GPS etc.

also combi fed the second and he had a bottle of formula (cows milk in later months) at night until at least 2.5… do what works for you

Thanks! Did you brush his teeth after he fell asleep if he went to bed on a bottle? I have those little finger toothbrushes - think I’ll try to clean her teeth after her bottle but before I put her in the cot

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110APiccadilly · 11/09/2023 21:14

Interesting reading others' analysis of breastfeeding around them. In my experience, I only know either people who bottle fed from very early on, or people who breast fed for well over a year, often for two to four years. I'd say that in my circle, I'm unusual in stopping at 12 months, and I literally know no one who stopped at 6 months.

ValancyRedfern · 11/09/2023 21:18

Bf rates in the UK are extremely low past a few weeks, never mind months. If people are surrounded by long term breastfeeders they are likely living in a bit of a bubble. I felt like the 'breast is best message disappeared at birth and all the health care professionals were desperate for me to switch to formula as they didn't have a clue how to help me and dd breastfeed.

Orangeglows · 11/09/2023 21:23

ValancyRedfern · 11/09/2023 21:18

Bf rates in the UK are extremely low past a few weeks, never mind months. If people are surrounded by long term breastfeeders they are likely living in a bit of a bubble. I felt like the 'breast is best message disappeared at birth and all the health care professionals were desperate for me to switch to formula as they didn't have a clue how to help me and dd breastfeed.

You always hear that breastfeeding rates are low in the uk but I don’t know if I believe that. 9/10 people I know breastfed (until around 1 normally). I’ve never been surveyed…where do they get these figures from?

harrietm87 · 11/09/2023 21:31

I’m in London and it was normal in my circles to breastfeed until the mum
went back to work, which was usually around 12 months.

In terms of stopping bf vs stopping formula, there are no benefits to formula over cows milk past age 1, and it’s a lot more expensive. Whereas the benefits of breastmilk carry on as long as you breastfeed. Plus, leaving aside the benefits of breastmilk, the act of breastfeeding itself is soothing and really an amazing parenting tool when kids are grumpy/tired/in pain/ill, so those benefits last beyond 12 months as well. I don’t think there is anything harmful or wrong about giving formula (in a cup) past 12 months, but given the price and the fact cow’s milk is just as good, im not sure why you’d bother?

In terms of impact on teeth, bottles (and dummies) are nothing like breasts. The act of breastfeeding actively promotes healthy mouth and jaw development, whereas sucking on artificial teats can be damaging. I had a dummy until I was nearly 4 and it permanently deformed my teeth, even my adult teeth.

110APiccadilly · 11/09/2023 21:41

I've heard that the official breastfeeding rates only count babies fed literally nothing else until six months. So though I breastfed till 12 months and never gave formula, neither of my babies would count as exclusively breastfed because I started weaning about a week before 6 months.

I don't know whether that's right but if it is, the rates can be low and a lot of children can be breastfed.

Hollyppp · 11/09/2023 21:45

I breastfeed til 14 months but I wanted to breastfeed til 2 years but my mum and husband both pestered me from 9 months onwards to stop

BertieBotts · 11/09/2023 22:05

Yes, it doesn't really make sense that you MUST stop formula exactly on the dot of their first birthday. It's not like an internal switch goes off and previous to this they need formula and after they don't.

FWIW I have read a bit about the history of formula and it used to be that they would advise giving formula until 6 months old and then it was unnecessary and could be replaced with cow's milk. This was at a time when the recommended weaning age was around 3-4 months, and so by 6 months the baby's diet was majority solid foods (this is why the older generation are so obsessed with you getting to 3 meals a day really quickly). So really, the shift from formula to cow's milk is about the shift when the baby is more reliant on their calorie intake from food than they are from milk. My experience with breastfeeding (my own, and being in various support groups and training as a peer supporter) is that this shift can happen a little bit later with breastfeeding, some time during the second year as opposed to during the first. The advice when I had DS1 (15 years ago) was that they should be on mostly food by 9 months old. For my younger two children (2 and 5) I got the sense that the advice is now 12 months roughly for that shift. So I would say to use that as a rough rule of thumb - once the baby is on majority food and milk is a minor part of the diet, it's sufficient to switch to cow's milk, formula is no longer necessary (breastmilk/breastfeeding continues to be beneficial as long as you + baby want to). That will be different ages for different babies but probably somewhere around 12 months or possibly shortly before. During the formula shortage in the US last year, they were advising anyone with a baby older than 9/10 months who was taking on a lot of solids to switch to cow's milk in order to free up supplies for those with younger babies who really needed it.

Interestingly, this is also how follow on milk for the 6-12 month marketing slot is conceived as well - it's meant to be designed for babies who are taking in majority food and aren't as reliant on the nutritional additives in formula. I feel this is not well communicated at all - most people assume it is basically the same as first formula.

Formula is not technically an alternative to breastmilk or a replacement for breastmilk - it's more of a replacement/alternative to the other things that people used to feed babies on, which were very crude by our modern standards - unpasteurised animal milks, flour and water, broths, strange mixtures involving orange juice and cod liver oil. People have the perception that it is an alternative to breastmilk or a synthetic version of breastmilk or based on breastmilk because, again, marketing suggests this but that is not really what it is - it's just a complete food suitable for infants who are not yet eating a varied solid diet. Research on breastmilk has influenced some of the additives and nutritional make up, but it's not where it started out. It does the job it is trying to do very well, it is a totally safe option, and is a million times better than those old options so there is no reason to look down upon it, but it is a completely different thing to breastmilk all the same. Some people will take that as an implicit criticism but I don't think it is, it's possible to say that one thing isn't the same as another while accepting that both options are perfectly valid with pros and cons which will appeal differently to different women/families.

BertieBotts · 11/09/2023 22:08

There are separate figures for exclusive breastfeeding (around 1% at 6 months, which I don't think is that shocking since weaning is advised to start at around 6 months and most people start before!) and any breastfeeding, which counts mixed feeding with formula and solids, that figure is around 30% by 6 months which is more consistent with most people's experience.

The biggest drop off is around 6 weeks, if you get that far then you are likely to continue for as long as you planned to.

It's also the case that the most reliable indicator for breastfeeding success or not is what people around you do, which is probably why people have such polarised views and tend to report that either "everyone" breastfeeds that they know or "nobody" does - that is statistically consistent with what tends to happen. It is typical to exist within a bubble which is a majority either way.

Iop · 11/09/2023 22:22

Darkdiamond · 11/09/2023 19:50

My kids' paediatrician (I don't live in the UK so my children have their own doctor) told me to stop breastfeeding at 18 months old, as after that they're just using you as a dummy.

That doesn't even make sense. A dummy functions as a substitute for when babies and young children breastfeed for comfort - it's literally a substitute breast.
So... he's saying your child is using your breast as a substitute for a substitute breast. Complete gibberish.

AnIndianWoman · 11/09/2023 22:56

DidYeAye22 · 11/09/2023 20:46

Haha, rickets. That’s a new one!

It’s not a ‘new one’. The NHS has warned about this for years. That’s why the recommendation is to stop formula past 1 as there isn’t enough vitamin d for them in infant formula. Formula past 1 used to be a British Indian and African thing in the 90s and it made our rickets problem worse.

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