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Original poster

Is this classed as abusive?

36 replies

Mlexapet · 18/08/2023 22:20

Telling our 4 yr old he 'better shut the f**k up or else'. My children's father thinks this isn't abusive and destructive whereas I certainly think it is. He thinks abuse is only physical. Apparently my parenting is just rubbish and my 4 yr old runs rings around me and whinges all the time because I let him get away with it. I obviously disagree. My children's father thinks by putting the fear of God into him is the way forward. I had a very abusive and traumatic childhood so my tolerance of abuse is really low and I pick up on absolutely everything. Am I reading too much into it and just being triggered by this (which is a me issue)? He is a great Dad despite his occasional outbursts.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 18/08/2023 22:23

Yes verbally and emotionally abusive

7Worfs · 18/08/2023 22:23

That’s an unacceptable way to speak to anyone, let alone a child. If he wants to express the same sentiment, he can say it like “you have to be quiet now, or there will be XYZ consequences” (no watching TV today or whatever). And not in a nasty tone.

sailrunski · 18/08/2023 22:24

He's not a great dad. He's an abusive dad.

Nothingbuttheglory · 18/08/2023 22:26

Yep, abusive just saying that.

What happens if your 4 year old fails to shut the fuck up? What does their father mean by "or else"?

Nothingbuttheglory · 18/08/2023 22:27

He is a great Dad despite his occasional outbursts.

Seriously?

RoseslnTheHospital · 18/08/2023 22:30

Of course it's abusive. He's not a great dad, if this is his attempts at parenting, never mind what ever else he does.

Are you together or separated?

Original poster
Mlexapet · 19/08/2023 07:51

RoseslnTheHospital · 18/08/2023 22:30

Of course it's abusive. He's not a great dad, if this is his attempts at parenting, never mind what ever else he does.

Are you together or separated?

We are together but not married. He calls it 'parenting'. He had such an awful childhood that I believe he is becoming the bully abuser like his own parents were but cannot see it.

OP posts:
Poontangle · 19/08/2023 08:01

Ask yourself, how would you feel if a teacher or nursery worker told your son to 'shut the fuck up or else'?There's your answer.

He's not a great dad. And you know it.

Mercibuckets · 19/08/2023 08:05

If anyone spoke to my child like that - ever - they would be out of our lives.
Yes, it’s abusive. No, his background can’t account for it. If he doesn’t realise this isn’t ok you need to protect your son (and yourself)

00100001 · 19/08/2023 08:10

What does he say when DS won't do as he is asked, like leave the park or something? How does he approach that?

Littlecovid · 19/08/2023 08:14

As a 4 year old your parents should be people you trust and feel safe with at all times. Your DS’s son is abusive and you’re allowing your son to be abused.

There are lots of people who can help and ‘LTB’ doesn’t have to be the first step. Your HV is a good place to start or the NSPCC.

FrenchandSaunders · 19/08/2023 08:15

Horrible way to speak to anyone let alone a four year old!

DurhamDurham · 19/08/2023 08:38

my tolerance of abuse is really low and I pick up on absolutely everything. Am I reading too much into it and just being triggered by this (which is a me issue)

Well either you pick up on everything and know without asking that this is totally unacceptable or you don't. You can't follow up that sentence asking if you're reading too much into it, that doesn't make sense.

Needingacoffee · 19/08/2023 10:58

There's no doubt about it. That is abusive. What was said would trigger me, because I was abused in childhood. I have Complex Post Traumatic Stress because of it too.

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:29

It’s abusive. And probably doesn’t mean a thing to a 4yo who already struggle with some very spelled out instructions, except scare him.

Would have been a very common way to speak (the or else possibly being replaced with an actual threat) in similar households when he was young, as you surely know, even as a early 90s kid I had it, so probably where it comes from, by this I mean I wouldn’t jump to leave him.

I wonder if in his eyes he’s not being abusive because he’s just saying ‘or else’, and knows he won’t actually follow through with anything, and presumably your 4yo wouldn’t understand f**k - maybe he as a child had an actual threat instead that would definitely be followed through with regularly, as you say his upbringing was awful. Just theorising of course.

How does your 4yo react ?

Does he have any siblings ? Some with children maybe ? Or a close family member who knows the situation ? He might be more likely to listen to them, maybe they could encourage him towards counseling and parenting classes.

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:36

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:29

It’s abusive. And probably doesn’t mean a thing to a 4yo who already struggle with some very spelled out instructions, except scare him.

Would have been a very common way to speak (the or else possibly being replaced with an actual threat) in similar households when he was young, as you surely know, even as a early 90s kid I had it, so probably where it comes from, by this I mean I wouldn’t jump to leave him.

I wonder if in his eyes he’s not being abusive because he’s just saying ‘or else’, and knows he won’t actually follow through with anything, and presumably your 4yo wouldn’t understand f**k - maybe he as a child had an actual threat instead that would definitely be followed through with regularly, as you say his upbringing was awful. Just theorising of course.

How does your 4yo react ?

Does he have any siblings ? Some with children maybe ? Or a close family member who knows the situation ? He might be more likely to listen to them, maybe they could encourage him towards counseling and parenting classes.

Sorry should add that my childhood was also abusive, I’m not condoning it in any way.
The fact that you say he doesn’t see it’s wrong just makes me hope it’s repressed trauma, trying to normalise if only a little his childhood, etc, so many things come back to mind in a strange way when you have your own. Therapy would be good if he agrees to it. Or maybe even a father child activity (one geared for dads, or that tends to have a lot of them), let him make dad friends and see for himself how many speak like that ?

BlueMoe · 20/08/2023 08:40

Mlexapet · 18/08/2023 22:20

Telling our 4 yr old he 'better shut the f**k up or else'. My children's father thinks this isn't abusive and destructive whereas I certainly think it is. He thinks abuse is only physical. Apparently my parenting is just rubbish and my 4 yr old runs rings around me and whinges all the time because I let him get away with it. I obviously disagree. My children's father thinks by putting the fear of God into him is the way forward. I had a very abusive and traumatic childhood so my tolerance of abuse is really low and I pick up on absolutely everything. Am I reading too much into it and just being triggered by this (which is a me issue)? He is a great Dad despite his occasional outbursts.

Does he tell people outside the house “I recommend telling them to shut the fuck up?” Or does he know it’s something that has to be kept secret.

of course it’s disgusting, and it’s behaviour that your child will start to act out in you before you know it.

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:51

BlueMoe · 20/08/2023 08:40

Does he tell people outside the house “I recommend telling them to shut the fuck up?” Or does he know it’s something that has to be kept secret.

of course it’s disgusting, and it’s behaviour that your child will start to act out in you before you know it.

Show quote history

Knowing if he says it to the poor child in public would be interesting re the keeping a secret part.

But agreed, kid will act out, if he’s quite at a prime age for that, old enough to start to understand (has he ever asked what or else means ?) and to remember - and repeat at nursery/school…

Perfect28 · 20/08/2023 08:52

Not a great dad- abusive dad. Will affect child now and as they grow.

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:52

Also, has he only been like this since your kids understanding increased due to his age or was he the same when a younger toddler ?

Original poster
Mlexapet · 20/08/2023 08:56

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:36

Sorry should add that my childhood was also abusive, I’m not condoning it in any way.
The fact that you say he doesn’t see it’s wrong just makes me hope it’s repressed trauma, trying to normalise if only a little his childhood, etc, so many things come back to mind in a strange way when you have your own. Therapy would be good if he agrees to it. Or maybe even a father child activity (one geared for dads, or that tends to have a lot of them), let him make dad friends and see for himself how many speak like that ?

Show quote history

Thanks for the advice. Yes he has 2 younger brothers, 18mo and a newborn. I do agree that it's possibly repressed trauma but he doesn't even acknowledge that at all. He won't engage with therapy and is not interested in making dad friends. There was another incident a few months ago where I got back and he was there smashing up one of our 4yr olds toys in front of him and there it in the bin. Or dragging him out the bath because he was screeching too much. Just generally far too rough and demeaning. It's like he loses all control. It might have been acceptable for his generation (he is 20yrs my senior) but whether it is or not, does not condone the fact he is just terrifying our 4yr old. It will continue if I stay. He has been intimidating and threatening to me before now so I know it's a trait of his. I'm tired of walking on eggshells never knowing what will set him off and I'm devastated that he's projecting it onto our son (sons in due course no doubt). I've never heard anyone speak to their child like that and I feel like if I stay, I'm just telling him it's ok to treat him like that. His emotional intelligence is very low, he doesn't communicate well at all and just erupts with anger and rage when things get to him.

OP posts:
Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 08:56

Perfect28 · 20/08/2023 08:52

Not a great dad- abusive dad. Will affect child now and as they grow.

Yes, very sad, especially in these days of gentle parenting he’ll feel so different, and like something must be so wrong with him.
4yo is still a bit of margin of time if dad is willing to fix, but not that much, really needs to be acted upon now.

Peridot1 · 20/08/2023 09:00

So he is verbally abusive, emotionally abusive and physically abusive.

How is any of that a great Dad?

Perfect28 · 20/08/2023 09:02

I know I'll get slated for victim blaming and I know it's not helpful at this stage but having just read your update OP I'm baffled that you have a further and recent two children with a man you know to have 'aggresive traits'. I think you need to plan to leave as soon as you can.

Godlovesall26 · 20/08/2023 09:04

Mlexapet · 20/08/2023 08:56

Thanks for the advice. Yes he has 2 younger brothers, 18mo and a newborn. I do agree that it's possibly repressed trauma but he doesn't even acknowledge that at all. He won't engage with therapy and is not interested in making dad friends. There was another incident a few months ago where I got back and he was there smashing up one of our 4yr olds toys in front of him and there it in the bin. Or dragging him out the bath because he was screeching too much. Just generally far too rough and demeaning. It's like he loses all control. It might have been acceptable for his generation (he is 20yrs my senior) but whether it is or not, does not condone the fact he is just terrifying our 4yr old. It will continue if I stay. He has been intimidating and threatening to me before now so I know it's a trait of his. I'm tired of walking on eggshells never knowing what will set him off and I'm devastated that he's projecting it onto our son (sons in due course no doubt). I've never heard anyone speak to their child like that and I feel like if I stay, I'm just telling him it's ok to treat him like that. His emotional intelligence is very low, he doesn't communicate well at all and just erupts with anger and rage when things get to him.

Show quote history

Oh that’s awful other events OP, I’m sorry. You paint a hard picture even for you (walking on eggshells), from your OP when you said occasional outbursts I thought he got angry at him once in a while this way (not that it’s great either, but you see what I mean I guess).

Do you have the practical ability to leave (financial, etc. As I imagine with 3 very young children close in age you may not have worked a few years, and obviously right now you have a newborn. Would family support you ex house you? As you mentioned leaving, and I agree with your reasons.

Just a thing : when I asked about siblings I meant your husband, they may be the only ones he’d listen to re what actually happened in their childhood. That’s why I also asked if they had children perhaps.

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