How to deal with DD refusal of seeing her Dad

[potatosalad9]

My DD is 7, split from her dad when she was 3. He started off with a 50/60 split but this has now gone to every other weekend and no other contact in between (his choice).

The last 6 months she has refused to go see him. I've tried to support both of them, I never say for him not to try and collect her and I allow him to come and try and talk her round. Sometimes she point blank refuses to get in the car, others she goes but then has to come home a few hours later as she's upset or makings things miserable for his family. She will not stay under any circumstances and refuses to try. Because I never tell him not to come (this wouldn't be fair) it can mean he's turning up on 'his weekends' up to six times a weekend, I can't fault him for not giving up but it's distressing for her which is in turn distressing for me and it also means our whole weekends are around his plans and when he wants to come try again. I also don't want to see my ex six times in 48 hours. Where do I stand with this? I don't ever want to look like I'm refusing him access but is it reasonable to expect me to facilitate this many visits over 48 hours and also is it fair on DD when it's causing so much distress?

This leads me to another issue. A year ago it was agreed her dad would have her for a week in the summer holidays to go away. The first time he'd have had her this long. As she hasn't stayed overnight with him for the last six months I just can't see how it's rationale to think this can still go ahead. How do I broach this subject without looking confrontational? I really don't want to fall out with my ex and I want to be reasonable at all times but I feel like the lines blurred sometimes between doing what's right to keep the peace and what's right DD. She also refuses to eat anything when with him, I believe as a way of control (although he won't see that). A week away would be a disaster but I can't just allow him to turn up and try as if she doesn't go I need to plan childcare around work. I was thinking of also offering no maintenance to be paid the month of the holiday to cover the costs of her place (uk break in families accommodation).

Does anyone have any advise on if it's reasonable to ask for him to only try and take her say twice on his weekend rather than expecting me to be in the entire time for when it suits him to come back and how to broach the holiday without looking obstructive? There is no court order in place and I've tried to speak to her both with ex present and separately about what's causing this refusal but she just says she's happier at home.

I have tried dropping her off instead so it's not her leaving me and also meeting in neutral places. I think I have a clear plan going forwards so thank you for everyone's helpful comments.

I do find it eye opening that some people perceive it to be an issue of the mother that a child is upset about the fathers actions. I have no control over his current situation, all I can do is put support in place to help her process it. Also, yes she is 7 and yes she should do as she's told (as she does 99% of the time) but I feel like this is one situation she needs to feel listened to. She's trying to tell me she's unhappy and I need to find an appropriate way to manage her feelings.

It sounds like she needs to be able to talk to some sort of neutral third party about her feelings on this. I get that you're doing your best but I don't think you can solve this one.

I can’t blame her for not wanting to go and stay at a house with her dad and his new GF and 5

Oops sent too soon.

I can’t blame her for not wanting to go.
Is it possible for you to leave while her dad comes to collect her. Maybe allow him an hour or two in your house to do some playing/have breakfast with her before you return. Then I’d she wants to stay home after that/he can’t get her to go with him then that’s his try for the day over. you shouldn’t have to alter you whole weekend around him coming and going multiple times. I’m guessing he wouldn’t do the same for you. He wouldn’t have you popping in his house 345 times a weekend.

This is a situation of his own making.

has he tried taking her away one to one for a night somewhere. I wonder if the issue is him or the house/other children.

Take the pressure off her to stay for a whole weekend or even overnight for a start. Something like "Dad's going to pick you up on Saturday morning but he'll bring you home after lunch", then extend as she gets more comfortable (if she ever does, it may not happen).

My DD absolutely hated being away overnight (and at 13 still isn't keen but she's ASD), but she's fine with a very defined time period when she knows she'll be home for dinner/after the cinema etc. You really need to do this in babysteps over a long period.

I have almost exactly the same situation, but my DD is now 11. This has been going on for years now, though.

I used to make her go. Like you, we had a more equal split and she spent nights with him.

Then he was shielding over lockdown and didn't see her for about 6 months at all. She was so happy.

Then when contact resumed she didn't want to go and it was making life really, really difficult. On the day before she was due to see him she would start playing up and having tummy aches and lashing out about nothing. Then she started to refuse to go. It was really horrible for everyone.

In the end, I sat her Dad down and we talked it out. There were a few things he was doing that she didn't like. He thinks it's funny to tease her and she hates it. He has been told to pack it in a hundred times, but still does it. She is also anxious around food and I don't make it a battle ground here, but he forces a 'you eat what I put in front of you' policy on her.

Long story short, we agreed to pull it right back. Now she is collected from school by him once a week and he takes her out for food 1:1 and drops her back. So a couple of hours with a purpose and he actually concentrates on her. And she goes for one day at the weekend, but usually from lunchtime until evening. No overnights.

She is calmer and happier (although she still moans about going). She knows we negotiated it together and she agreed to it, so she has some buy-in. She knows that she has to see him, but it is never for that long.

Her dad doesn't like it still, but I wouldn't have been able to carry on living with the tears, anxiety, and arguments for days on end any longer. That wasn't her trying to force her will, she was just really unhappy.

Your 'job' is to make her 'available' for him to pick up, it's not your responsibility to make her go. Agree a time he can collect her. If she refuses to go, that's that.

you don't have to 'make her available' several times over the weekend, you don't have to make her go or fuck around finding ways to entice her to go.

He fucked up 'dropping her' when he prioritised his new DP & her kids. Your DD isn't stupid!!

he turns up at the arranged time, she goes with him or doesn't, that's the end of it. Him coming & going trying to cajole her is making things worse for everyone!! It has become a power play & she 'can't' 'give in' & will be enjoying the control she has.

Does he ever suggest they do something, just the two of them rather than just take her to the new zoo?

it's up to him to make her want to be with him, not you.

obviously a weeks holiday when she isn't going with him for an hour, isn't going to happen.

What stood out for me was the line 'making things miserable for his family'. I was told the exact same thing by my DF after three months of him trying to integrate me into his new life. Apparently because I asked for a drink or asked for something to eat instead of helping myself, I wasn't treating their house as my home (it wasn't my home and my DM drilled manners into me). On my last trip there, my DF told me to get my coat on and took me home, telling DM I 'created a bad atmosphere'. I was nine. I didn't speak to him again until I was 17.

is he spending quality 1:1 time with her or just expecting her to crack on with things in a large family setting

My 7 year old (at the time) refused to see his dad for 6 months after our relationship ended. I stuck to an 'ask 3 times' kinda method, where I would just check he was sure, and not push anything.

Eventually he's built up to a day almost every other weekend, but he's tried an overnight, and doesn't like it. And that's with his older brother who goes more happily there, and no new siblings, and he only tried that after being given a phone, and told that if he called me, I would come straight and pick him up (which he tested at least once before he trusted)

My kids would not cope with such a noisy, busy house for an overnight stay that they didn't really want to go on.

Could he just do day visits instead, can you find what it is that she's dead against and work on that?

No way would I send her. It will be a hideous memory and a very upsetting one, of her childhood. She is refusing to eat FFS.
He is paying lipservice only.

DD is thankfully now nearly 15, very vocal and confident with lawyers. She has not seen her father for 2 years. She hates him. He makes zero effort to even contact her. When she was your DDs age, he made zero effort also. I delayed divorcing him so she could see him as little as possible. He never made any effort with her at all and was verbally and emotionally abusive.

He yacks on and on about "parental alienation" to delay divorce. Fine... Let him, it is all bullshit and people know it.

It is horrid being stuck in the middle and ultimately responsible and not being able to "bad mouth" the father, just big him up. DD has told me it made her very insecure that I always supported her seeing him (the small amout of time I did) Obviously, we talk honestly now. It is much easier and we are happy.

Fathers are responsible for their relationships. We are not and nor should the DC be.

In the circumstances you describe about the set-up in the other house, no way would I make her go. It's hard for you as it means you get no time to yourself and the childcare issue in the holidays sounds a nightmare, but equally the situation your ex has plunged his DD into with all these other kids is untenable and I'd question whether he's looking after her properly when she's there, or leaving her in the dubious care of all the other kids while he's loved up with new woman and baby. Don't take any risks with your DD at such a young age. It's been this way for six months so needs a sensible convo with ex (if he's capable) about how to realistically move forward. If he takes his other home and family out of the equation, he could see DD for a few hours somewhere neutral to re-establish the relationship on a better footing and go from there. But pushing for her to come around when it's not going to work is pointless.

No I make sure if she doesn't go we don't do anything exciting, we just stay in for the day.
I'd call that a punishment.

And you can be very sure that she knows it is.

its a really hard situation but those PPs who are advising to just “not send her” don’t understand that if ex goes for a court order the OP will have no choice. A child of 7 won’t be given the option to go or not go by a court unless there is some massive back story of safeguarding etc.

OP has to try and facilitate contact if the dad is asking for it and he clearly is because he’s turning up on the door step six times over the weekend.

lots of good advice about building up slowly and neutral spaces etc. I will also add every single female child I know of split parents has started to refuse contact at around age 6-7. Every single one.
Of course she prefers being in her main house hold with her mum, who wouldn’t at that age? But she also needs a dad, he might be a bit shit but a bit shit is better than no contact and no male role model.

OP will be forced to enable contact or face breech of orders if he takes her to court, so there’s no point telling her to just not send her. Daft.

I'm not punishing her. I'm just not rewarding her either. If she refuses to go then that's ok, we stay in and have a nice time at home doing things together or we go to the local park or do normal things. I just mean we don't go for a big fun day out which could be seen as a reward. If it was the other way and I said to her 'great, you didn't go so now let's go to Alton towers for the day' then how would that look?

Thank you everyone, you've all given me some really helpful insights into how I can try and make this a more manageable situation for everyone. I will try and broach a conversation with her Dad and I also feel confident that a discussion about the holiday needs to be had.

I have a 7 year old who refuses to stay overnight at her dad's. She is however happy with activities (cinema, play place, a meal out etc) which have a set start and end time. It's not that she doesn't want to see her dad but that overnights are too much. I've had to work hard to advocate for her and respect the boundaries that she puts in place. Forcing visitation was traumatic for all and made everything worse. She was reacting physically and emotionally against visitation and her anxiety about it all impacted home and school in the days leading up to it.
She knows that she can always go to her dad's but we will only try once per visitation day.
Her dad doesn't understand and thinks it's all my fault but is slowly coming round to the idea that he has to listen to her.

I'd say the OP probably has a good sense of whether the ex is likely to take it to court or not, so have taken that as read when giving the advice.

This sounds traumatic for your DD. Put her first, that is your job and it should be her fathers as well.

He shouldn’t be turning up when she doesn’t want to go and you shouldn’t be trying to push and guilt her into it. What the hell is wrong with him, turning to 6 times? And why are you allowing this ? It will make things much worse for her.

she is saying no. Listen.

Ask if she is happy to go to soft play or the park with him on her own. If she says yes then that happens. Extend if necessary.

If he wants to go to court to try and force overnight contact, let him. In the meantime make her available for what she can cope with and absolutely no more.

Why are you worried about things “turning nasty” with your ex?

Your responsibility is to make her available for contact and not cause barriers to it. It sounds like you have done everything that you can. There's a limit to how much you can encourage contact when the child isn't keen and it's a shame that he can't see that he has created this mess with his actions.

It seems you are doing the right things and just do make sure when you talk about her dad you aren't negative (make it sound exciting going etc) do you can't be accused of alienation, at that point there is nothing much more than perserving

I think you should stop debating this. She is clearly very unhappy there. She needs your protection so stop enabling her to be in a situation so upsetting she refuses to eat. Far too young to be thrown into this. The father clearly is useless in putting her needs first so either you accept that and remove her from it or set her up for 10 more years of feeling like shit.

I think you should support her wishes on this despite her young age.

Can you get her some form of counselling? Low pressure like play or animal therapy. Someone needs to work out what the barriers are and how to resolve them with her.

The turning up 6 times seems like it is never going to achieve anything. It's like someone nagging you and gets more annoying every time. How about for now he comes to yours for short times with no expectation that she is asked to go anywhere alone with him. So he could give her breakfast, watch a couple of cartoons or similar and then go. Just get used to being in his company while you are in another room.

I agree with this being a subconscious control thing on her part and you’re both giving her too much power. If she’s already starting to restrict her food intake when she doesn’t want to do something, you need to be very careful it doesn’t escalate into anorexia and other mental health problems. She needs to know that going on hunger strike isn’t a way to get what she wants.

It’s a massive change to go from being an only child to one of six including teenagers and a baby.

Time to sit down with her and her dad and come up with a suitable plan together. What’s happening now is unsustainable, unsettling and it’s in everyone’s best interests to have a set routine. Does she have or can she have her own bedroom or dedicated space at his house? Can he take her to soft play or swimming then dinner by themselves once a week to build the bond?