Indirect contact with my son

[Richard1979]

Hi.

I'm a father, with a 9 year old son (M). I left my partner 4 years ago, as the relationship was toxic and not something I wanted to model for my son. Constant arguments, raised voices etc. It was ugly and neither of us showered ourselves in glory tbh.

A lengthy, expensive legal fight ensued. I was accused of abuse, which was false. She spread stories around the village which were untrue about me being 'controlling.' In hindsight, I've realised that the controlling behaviour was hers. I was trapped in a terrible relationship, by emotional control, because I felt walking away would result in her doing something terrible. She has a history of mental heath struggles, and I felt I couldn't leave. It was exposing our son to it, that made me act and leave.

Sorry, that was important for context. I'm not looking for an echo chamber, or writing here because I feel you will write what I want to hear. I'm going to just try and stick to the facts now.

Four years on, I am happily married. I have a wonderful wife who loves M as much as I do. They have a really positive relationship. The environment is positive, no arguments or shouting. Ever. She was herself a divorcee from an abusive marriage. (control) She doesn't recognise any of the traits in me. In fact, it's the opposite. Im not a different person, so I don't believe I was ever controlling in my previous relationship.
M shows himself to be happy and confident in our care.

The Child Care Arrangement.
I enjoy more time with my son that most fathers. As our son was 6 at the time of writing, there are lines which ensure we must each facilitate phonecalls to the other parent on Xmas and new year. My ex takes this as the full extent to which indirect contact is allowed. No other phonecalls, no letters or cards allowed. I used to draw my son cartoons, and write short notes of care to show he was in our thoughts. These were all intercepted and withheld.
There is nothing in the order which expresses we should impede indirect contact. This is the important point to make, because she feels she should.
No is 9, he has a child friendly smart watch from us to take and receive phone calls, messages and pictures. His mother's view is that it doesn't fall within the parameters of the care arrangement and he doesn't feel like he can use it by proxy of this opinion.
He does want to use it. He uses it in our care, occasionally making calls to his mother. We are fine with that. Totally. But he feels the need to switch it off when he goes back into his mother's care.

What should we do? How can we correct his view of what is allowed in the 'rules'. I've explained to him, the rules are there for mum and dad to follow, not him. I also told him, there are no rules for him not to be able to talk to us with his on phone or watch or anything! He doesn't believe me though.
My worry is, he is under the same emotional control I was under. Fearing from upsetting his mother...

I don’t think that this is what you want to hear but my advice is that you don’t try and convince him or his mother that he can have the watch in her house.

When a child lives across two houses it’s important for them to realise that the rules in each house are different and are set by that parent. So you have control of what happens in your house and mum has control of what happens in her house. Trying to persuade your son to circumvent the mum-house rules is unreasonable.

In your position I would focus on making the time with you positive and make sure that you are doing a fair share of the parenting work.

If you want to change the shared care agreement to have a mid week phone call included then I would suggest that you email mum respectfully explaining why it would be beneficial for m. That you ask her to suggest a fixed day, time and method for calling and that you stick to her reply.

When a child lives across two houses it’s important for them to realise that the rules in each house are different and are set by that parent. So you have control of what happens in your house and mum has control of what happens in her house. Trying to persuade your son to circumvent the mum-house rules is unreasonable.

And could be interpreted as controlling.

I agree that you should respect the house rules she has in place. I also understand that it is unreasonable for her to refuse a mid-week call. However, conflict is very damaging for children and being asked to ignore his mum's rules is involving your child in your conflict with your ex.

If you want to send him pictures, cartoons etc, then set up an email in his name and give him access to it when he is at your house.

You are wasting your time posting here..your ex will always be right & nobody will believe she was the controlling one. Delete your post & go somewhere else for reasoned objective advice

How often do you see him?

Thank you 2244, I appreciate your input. Whatever the outcome, I think having his own means to communicate has caused more problems, and solved none.

The frustrating thing is they aren't his mother's house rules. She has managed to control him by making him feel like he shouldn't be in contact with us because she has shared her belief with him that the care arrangement compels it. That's not true though.

We are not trying to control M. Far from it. We know he wants to be in contact, but he is frightened of doing something he thinks is against his mother's interpretation of the order. We just want him to follow what he wants, not her or us.

Talking across to her is impossible. Coparenting is not a word she recognises sadly.

Thank you, but I still feel its important to get this angle of advice. I know I'm not controlling, and I know his mother's interpration of the indirect contact instructions arent just wrong, they're harmful.
I would like to know thoughts on how to move forward though. If we take away the watch, what happens in a couple years when he would expect a mobile phone etc?

I understand. But whichever way you frame this he is clearly anxious about communication between visits. You have done what you can to alleviate this by telling him the truth but he is now in a position where he has to believe mum or dad and psychologically what does it mean for him that one of his parents is lying or misrepresenting the situation.

Let this go for now until he feels psychologically ready to deal with it. He will soon realise that it is normal for separated parents to contact their kids between visits.

I wouldn't want my 9yo to have a device like that, yet, so if hsmis dad gave home one then it would stay at dad's house or be put in a drawer at my house. End of. You can decide what your son does and has when he is with you, but you cannot force the other parent to parent like you in their house.

If you're in the UK you could ask for a court order for her to attend a Parenting Apart course.

In a couple of years he'll have more say over what happens, which is a good thing.

How often do you see him now? Just wondering if applying to amend the CAO so that you see him more?

Go back to court & have the Child Arrangement Order modified to stipulate other forms of contact.

Thank you, but this device is aimed at children this age who aren't ready for mobile phones. He can only make and receive calls from the contacts we enter as parents. It also has a school mode where it will only function as a watch.

I would, but it's expensive and there is no garrentee it would be granted.

Sorry what is the exact wording of the agreement ? If all the order says is : you can have phone call contact on these 2 dates, then that is all you can have.

I would go back to court. You can do this yourself. You are applying for a variation. It's easy enough to do.

To add, Ive also been down this road and with people like this, court is sometimes the only thing they understand.

Thank you for helping. You're right, he is stuck in the middle and doesn't know who to believe and shouldn't be put in the position of choosing.

Why is he stuck in the middle - my son learned very early that there are different rules in different houses, if you are seeing him every week I don’t see what you would need to contact him in between visits, but you haven’t answered that question so I assume it’s frequently.

There is no point at all going back to court on this issue.
Leave the watch with him. Use it to text him even if he feels he isn't allowed to reply. In time he will have a phone and be able to communicate with you more freely. He won't be 9 forever or under his mum's rules forever. In the meantime, let this go.

It wasn't intentional. We see him every week, and because I'm his Dad I should be able to check in with him and see how his week is going. Do I need another reason?
Without indirect, we can't remind him what he will need to bring when he comes to our house or arrange sleepovers with his friends at our house. Like I said, his mother doesn't do coparenting. If he forgets his school shoes she would make me hang them on the gate outside her house rather than him to come out to get them from me. The watch, is the tip of an iceburg tbh.

And that's really shit. But you can't change her, the court process can't change her and it's really not worth causing your child stress for the sake of something that will resolve in a couple of years.

It depends how you are with him when you contact him midweek or if you see him outside your time, from your 1st post you seem very intense, perhaps it upsets him and she is trying to protect him from that.

I don't have it to hand, but it specifies times when we must each facilitate a phonecall. Xmas and new year.

So it isn't correct to say that these times are exclusively the only time M can have indirect contact. If M has his own facilities, then it doesn't breach what is required of the CO.
When he has called his mother on it, she has shut down conversation and hung up. It's heartbreaking, he looked so confused.

As you see him every week I wouldn't push indirect contact. She will feel you are doing it to undermine her as you are both so toxic to each other. It could make him feel insecure going against his mum and negatively affect his relationship with you.

work really hard to make sure he doesn't forget things. Great lifeskill for him and have duplicates for as many things as possible to reduce friction.

Things might change when he gets a mobile but if you've pushed this she might monitor more.