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Parenting

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Original poster

The smacking thing - have you asked your children what they think about it?

73 replies

hunkermunker · 21/02/2008 00:10

After a couple of threads on here on the subject (and I realise I'm starting another one!) I asked DS1 about it the other day, calmly. He's 3.10.

I asked him how he'd feel if smacking him was something DH and I did (and reassured him we weren't about to!) as a punishment.

He said, and I quote, "That would make me very sad, Mummy, and it would NOT be very kind at all!"

Have you asked your children how they feel about it, whether you smack or not?

OP posts:

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lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 12:24

Fairymum - How did you take that, what did you think he meant by it? I look and think 'that's really sad, he think's he's rubbish and should be thrown away', but then maybe that's not what it means at all, children don't have the vocab to explain exactly what they think all the time.

A couple of weeks ago I would happily have said I was pro-smacking, yes happily. Now having contemplated it a lot due to threads on here I know I am nothing of the sort, I don't look down on others for doing it, but I know I don't want to hit my child. I had a discussion with my partner about it who would also be pro-smacking, it's how we were both brought up you see. But I started a conversation, said I really don't want us to ever do it, I said why I think it's counter-productive, and he agreed, so now neither of us are pro-smacking. It's scary trying to think of other ways to discipline a child, smacking definitely takes a lot of work out of it I think, which is why it seems like a good idea to some (not saying they are lazy, just that it's easier than spending 3 hours a day explaining something only for it to be done again as soon as your back is turned).

It'd be good if you could all ask your kids what they think of your method of dicipline, because I know I used to really resent time outs, used to make me maaaaaad!

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 12:26

No hunkermunker you didn't. But the NSPCC do. That's what I was referring to.

FairyMum · 21/02/2008 12:27

Oh dear God.....Lollipopmother....it was a joke. He said it with a smile. A bit of background information: his little brother is currently obsessed with putting things in the bin.

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lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 12:30

Fairymum - I meant no offence, it's hard to see whether things are jokes or serious when it's typed out and you can't see the tone of it.

Original poster

hunkermunker · 21/02/2008 12:31

MAJ, I've thought about it more.

I don't think it's "child abuse" in the traditional "durty peedo fiddles with little girl" sense of the phrase, nor in the "battered to within inch of life" sense

But it is abusive to hit someone else for not doing something you want them to, isn't it? Otherwise why aren't I hitting DH for not remembering to put a bin liner in the bin when he's taken the full sack out, etc?

OP posts:

Oliveoil · 21/02/2008 12:33

yes, can you imagine?

dh I have told you before, the mop bucket does not live in the kithen

GO TO YOUR ROOM!

Original poster

hunkermunker · 21/02/2008 12:38

Kinda tempting in some ways though

OP posts:

lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 12:38

Yes I think you're right Hunker, it's an abusive action. There are obviously different strengths of abuse, there's a smack but then there's punching, kicking, putting your fag butts out in their eyes and walloping them with a baseball bat every day. For adults the law suggests there is a sliding scale of violence by classing things as 'commong assault, actual bodily harm, grevious bodily harm, manslaughter, murder and so on, they are all violence but the law still notes that they are varying degrees of the same thing.

GreenGlassGoblin · 21/02/2008 12:39

Re how does the child feel about it - the one and only time my mum smacked my brother she reports that he stood, furious, and said 'just you wait till I'm big, then I'll smack you back'. Pretty clear how he felt about it.

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 12:39

Well, in the same sense then it's abusive to put your child in time out because you wouldn't be allowed to hold your DH hostage if he refused to put the bin out.

I think the point is, parents are in authority over children and they must use that authority carefully. They have powers that children don't have (can ground them, withhold pocket money, put them in timeout) all of which you cannot do to a grown adult. They can also use their physical abilities and strength if they want to. This might just mean holding your toddler while they wrestle to get off the changing table (something I do every morning). Again, not something I do to an adult.

I don't think therefore that the "you wouldn't do this to an adult" thing works because parents are in authority over children whereas adult to adult, the relationship is not the same.

You might not want to smack for various other reasons and that's absolutely reasonable but parents are in authority over children and they need to use that authority carefully. As with any power, you can use it or you can abuse it.

IMHO, a smack is not really a big deal in the context of a generally decent and loving relationship and as i keep saying, that was my experience and the experience of lots of people of my generation. Some people think it's an abuse of their power. Some people think it's not.

lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 12:41

Oh yes, so my point! Yes my point was that yes it's definitely an abusive action, although it's not quite the same as 'child abuse' which is used to label people who beat their children to a pulp every day.

I have been surprised at what some people think is ok to say to their children though, I'd class it as emotional abuse some of the things that have been mentioned on here (that people have overheard), and the law also counts emotional abuse as Domestic Violence - I wonder how many people realise that they are actually commiting domestic violence against their children when they say such things.

Original poster

hunkermunker · 21/02/2008 12:47

I think the difference is that a smack is a violent consequence.

Time out physically removes a child from a situation where they are eg in danger of doing themselves or someone else injury. So it is a twofold "punishment". It allows them to calm down.

If DH does something I'm not keen on, I sometimes do a similar thing - I will remove myself from the situation.

Grounding, for instance, is also a twofold "punishment" - a child who is grounded can do chores to make amends for whatever it is they've been grounded for, can think about what they've done to be grounded and ways behave so as to avoid it in the future, etc.

But a smack - it's different. It's "you didn't do what I wanted you to, so I am causing you physical pain because I am bigger than you, so there - oh, and there's nothing you can do about it". It's not something a child learns in a positive way from.

OP posts:

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 12:58

Actually, my mum didn't smack me because she was bigger than me. She smacked me because I was naughty and needed to be reminded that she was in charge. And no, I couldn't do anythign about it. It wasn't an opportunity to improve my behaviour. It was a reminder that I should not do it again. There were other times when she did other things which were more along the lines of timeout but as I say, they were not any nicer than the smacked bottom.

And it didn't cause pain. It was more of a shock.

As I say, I'm not advocating it but I think the language about it is too emotive.

I was not abused as a child. Absolutely not. I had a rather lovely mother.

I just really hate the insistence on viewing this in a certain way when actually it just doesn't tally with my experience.

maybe times have changed too much to expect people to put a smacked bottom into perspective.

Original poster

hunkermunker · 21/02/2008 13:05

How old were you when she stopped smacking you, MAJ?

OP posts:

FairyMum · 21/02/2008 13:09

I think children are often loyal to their parents, even as an adult the child in you find it hard to criticise your parents.

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 13:09

Actually, she last smacked me when I was 15! And that one WAS quite bad because she was just very very angry! I tease her about it now because that was not the same sort of thing - it was more of an argument with an adolescent than a piece of discipline. Even she wouldn't argue that that one was ok.

Basically, I remember her smacking us as youngish children (5ish - 9ish I suppose) and then she didn't need to as we were older and more open to reason.

She didn't do it often and it was never hard or painful. It was just then we knew we had done something really bad.

FairyMum · 21/02/2008 13:10

If the smack was not hard nor painful, what was the point of it? Surely if a smack is not hard nor painful then a child would not mind being smacked? Or is it the humiliation?

lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 13:12

The bit about 'and you can't do anything about it' can surely be said for all punishments handed out though, whether it's time-out, taking a star away or smacking.

I remember having a conversation with my mum where she recounted a tale of seeing her friend's son run into the road, his dad talked and talked to him about why it was bad. My mum was shocked he hadn't gone crazy and though 'i'd have smacked her then, it was sooo dangerous'. They walked on hand in hand for a bit until the dad let go of the kid again and bamm, he bloody ended up running out again! By this point my mum was ready to tell the dad that he was a complete prat for not smacking him in the first place, did he want to get his DS run over!! Obviously she didn't say it, but it does beg the question, how many times are you expected to explain to a kid, and if you're out, how are you supposed to punish them because there's nothing to take away, there's no naughty step etc.

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 13:12

It's really not loyalty btw. My dad smacked us too when we were very young - and left when I was about 7. I have no loyalty to him but I don't feel bad about the smacking. I feel bad about the leaving...

I could say some emotive things about people who leave their children but it's not helpful and it wouldn't be completely true. (though I could make a decent argument that divorce is more abusive to children than the occasional smack but I don't suppose the NSPCC would dare to run that one).

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 13:13

Yes, it's the sense that you have gone too far. It's a shock. It's out of the ordinary. It's upsetting.

lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 13:14

FairyMum on Thu 21-Feb-08 13:10:52

If the smack was not hard nor painful, what was the point of it? Surely if a smack is not hard nor painful then a child would not mind being smacked? Or is it the humiliation?

A time-out isn't hard or painful either, but it is still used, neither is taking away a star on their chart, or telling them why it's wrong. None are painful, but all are used as ways of disciplining. IF a smack is used I think you must must must explain why straight afterwards, there must be a warning as well. If you just turn round and belt them one then that's nothing more than mindless violence and will teach them nothing (if smacking is believed to teach them anything in the first place).

margoandjerry · 21/02/2008 13:16

I have smacked a child once - in circumstances I think I was right to. Slightly off topic but...

When I was an au pair, I came in to find the 9 year old boy climbing up the dresser like it was a ladder - he was about to bring it down on himself. I screamed at him to get down - he just laughed. I tried to pull him off but he hung on even harder and we both nearly got crushed by a falling dresser. So I smacked him really, really hard. Enough to hurt. And in his shock he let go and I got him down.

On that occasion, I wasn't smacking him to punish actually. It was a smack to avert a horrible accident. Not sure how else I could have handled this.

lollipopmother · 21/02/2008 13:18

It's funny how people say 'you were effected by the smacking, you just don't know it' or 'you're just loyal to your parents'. Yes there's such a thing as Stockholm (sp) Syndrome but that doesn't mean that everyone has it. I was smacked. I have various strong issues with my mother, but none of them were about being smacked.

FairyMum · 21/02/2008 13:21

What was the age of the child running into the road? Most children run into the road because they are impulsive and not thinking, not because they are naughty.

FairyMum · 21/02/2008 13:23

Lollipopmother, but if smacking doesn't hurt then its not really a smack, but a tap or a touch. Then it isn't smacking in my books, I I don't understand why a child would do as its told just because it was touched on the bottom. Timeout is used to calm the child down. Smacking is not exactly an act of calm.

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