Can anyone help me before a snap at my fiver year old?

[idontknow54789]

My DS is 5 - he has always been incredibly clingy to me. He was a very 'intense' baby - was a terrible sleeper, demanded a lot of attention, wanting to be held all the time etc. As he's grown up this intensity has just got worse. A few examples - if I'm trying to cook he'll either insist he wants to help me or just follow me around, standing on my toes, chatting incessantly. If I'm in the shower he will sit outside asking how many more minutes/second I will be. If he wants to do some drawing he wants me to sit next to him, do it with him etc.

My DH can't do anything. This morning he screamed for nearly an hour because my DH made him some toast and he 'wanted mummy to do it'. I sat with him, telling him to breathe, calm down etc and I refused to make him the toast - I don't want him to get away with these things. Eventually after an hour he ate the toast - but it just makes our mornings so stressful and I can't get anything done.

I haven't had a lie in in years (he gets up at 5:30). He'll scream that he wants me to get up, not DH. When he was younger my DH could just pick him up and force him to go down - even if he screamed. But now he'll just climb into my bed and constantly ask how many more minutes (he'll actually count the seconds down).

My two year old is now starting to copy him so making it twice as bad.

He'll also not go to any clubs or swimming lessons etc. We stuck out swimming lessons for nearly a year but the most he would do it sit by the side of the pool - and that was a good day we actually managed to get him out of the house. My DH would usually take him so that wasn't really a case of him not going in without me - just being stubborn.

He is getting on very well at school (he's in reception) - he can read really well and will read independently (with me in very close proximity obviously). He's also incredible at maths and is constantly asking me to do sums for him to work out.

What else can I do? The meltdowns are getting ridiculous and he is STUBBORN. Is this normal? Everyone else I see their children happily go to clubs, just seem much more chilled. Even if DH suggests taking them to soft play at the weekend he would rather opt for staying at home and just following me round the house while I do chores. Now he's older we can't 'force' him out.

The only way I can avoid bedtime is going out after work and not getting back until 9 - and while this is tempting every night I'd quite like to come home!

No, I don’t think this is normal.

I’d say this isn’t actually normal past about 2.5/3 and perhaps is something you need to discuss with Healthvisitor or GP for an appropriate referral.

A lot of this sounds familiar and my DS is awaiting assessment for ASD. Have the school mentioned anything?

The other thing is that he is very sociable at school - has lots of friends and his teacher doesn't see any problems. He'll also happily go round a friends house for dinner, as long as it's someone he knows which does surprise me considering how he is at home.

Have you talked to him about this? Why does he think he does it?

If I try talking to him I always just get 'I don't know' or 'I just want you'. I think most of the time he doesn't understand what he's doing or the implications of it.

This sounds so hard. It’s hard to know if it will work but I’d maybe agree a plan with DH that for a couple of weeks you will work really hard on boundaries around this. Just like you did with the toast. But on all the little battles. I can well imagine that a lot of the time it’s easier to just get up instead of daddy etc. But make a really clear plan, who will get up on what days, who will make meals, etc. Maybe use timers when doing something with him like ‘I will colour in with you for 5 min then you do it yourself for 5 min’. There are good fun timers on YouTube my similar age DD likes.

I think the main thing is to have decided in advance how you will respond when he protests, to try and take the heat out of it all, and explain this to him in advance. Ie ‘daddy will be getting up with you tomorrow morning, I know you are used to getting mummy and it can feel sad but both mummy and daddy are here for you etc. ‘ I think if you are able to implement this you are giving him a clear message that histrionics are not effective. This is one we are also working on so I feel your pain. Repeated reminders to use words instead of screaming and loads of praise and attention when he explains what he wants/feels more straightforwardly. Comfort when upset of course but I think it gets easier to spot when it’s ‘do what I want now’ screaming and genuine distress.

Speak to yr HV and school to see if u can get help with parenting skills. often they run courses for struggling parents.

Maybe look up narcissism in children to see if it fits. But it sounds like you're going to need some kind of professional intervention, whatever the cause

I really don't think that's helpful. Like I said he's very sociable, kind to his brother and has lots of lovely friends. The clingyness is purely directed at me - he's lovely (apparently) when I'm not there.

Its not uncommon at 5 not to do clubs. Many are exhausted in their first year of school (our primary didnt used to let reception do even their clubs for a while!)

Is he in before and after school care ? How much time does he get with you on a weekday?

It may be just he needs to be a it older and it's a stage. I'd go the opposite way as they can feel you pull away - and give full attention for say 15 mins at a time where you focus on them and their activities.

Another that can help is visual routines so they know what is coming next. Change can be tricky so find an activity dad can fo and have him do that every day - have a visual board so mum play for half an hour after school /dad do X with child while mum cooks/reading/bath/bed or whatever.

It really can be so exhausting when they have a clingy phase.

Thank you. You're right, we're probably consistent 90% off the time but when you just need to get out the house, to school etc it is easier to just give in to him. Is good to know I'm not the only one going though similar.

Wow harsh no not at all narcissistic- kids are the centre of their own universe and they learn skills as they get older.

Really harsh - well done for disputing that OP!

Thanks. He's at a childminder after school two days a week so I'm around quite a bit. He tolerates the childminder but I wouldn't say he loves going there.

Round where we live everyone I speak to their children do different sports, drama, piano etc and I just feel like he's missing out on opportunities. I guess 5 is quite young still. I just hoped he'd grow out of it by now.

I don't think these behaviours are normal, no. He may well be coping all day at school (possible 'masking') but there there could be underlying anxiety which he is expressing at home, with you as his 'safe' person. I would be looking into it further and also would want to investigate possible neurodiversity.

I felt like this about my eldest who was later diagnosed with ADHD. He's also extremely extroverted, which might be related, or might just be his personality. He's a teenager now, and he spends all day (and all night if we don't stop him) on the phone (whatsapp/discord) to his mates. It was a bit of a struggle to get him assessed because he is also bright and does well at school, so everyone kept saying he's fine, he'll grow out of it, you need stronger boundaries etc.

Probably I did need stronger boundaries, but I think this was only a small part of it and honestly when I did try to be stricter it just made things worse. In hindsight, I probably should have done one of the popular parenting courses, just so I could turn around and say "I have tried X specific approach and this is the result" - but TBH I was reading a lot of parenting "woo" online at that time and it was making me feel like the courses would be useless. I don't think they would have worked to change his behaviour, but it would have been helpful to have been able to specifically say some kind of widely accepted technique had not worked.

I think it did real damage to our relationship between around ages 4-7, because I got so burnt out from the constant intense NEED that he seemed to have for me, I would be constantly irritated, and I wish that I'd pushed harder when he was 4 or 5 to get some kind of outside input or support. Instead I just kept hoping that he would grow out of it, and while he did somewhat, I kind of look back and think of the cost of waiting.

You have just described my 6 year old and I could have written much of this. Like you, I am unconvinced about ASD as they are very sociable, love company, and make a friend wherever they go.

However, we are looking into professional help now in case it is something beyond being simply very strong willed and single minded. They were not like this as a young toddler and I wonder if the pandemic has had an impact, as lots of it seems to be anxiety focussed for us.

You are not alone, anyway, and following with interest!

I will add that my child with ASD appears very sociable, popular and mostly manages in school. However, they are actually using all their intelligence to mask and are hence exhausted and meltdown when they get home.

Well I'm sorry you took this badly as it's actually something I've looked into a fair bit due to personal experience. And one thing narcissistic kids don't cope with very well is separation

Thanks. I have considered ADHD before but like you I figured if he was fine in school it couldn't be that. Did it take a long time to get a diagnosis because of that?

If our son had his way then his Dad would do everything for / with him. Not quite so extreme though as when we say daddy can’t it’s mammy doing it he’s usually fine after a bit of attempted pushback.

What happens if you talk him through in advance what will happen? So tonight daddy is doing bath and bedtime, and then tomorrow it will be my turn. And then remind him at every opportunity. Don’t forget daddy is doing bedtime tonight etc and repeat?

Also our son is on the pathway for autism diagnosis due to his social interaction which was flagged by nursery (we honestly wouldn’t have noticed if it wasn’t for them)

I knew a child like this and the parents were exacerbating it, in a well meaning way.

They always responded with how much they would miss DC as well, so the child would be worried that mum was missing them. They made a big fuss of any small farewell, which made it into a massive thing for their DC.

However, the main problem was the amount of control they gave their DC - it really tipped into too much responsibility, way more than they could handle. For example, if they were going to a sports club with my DC I would act light, like it was just a bit of fun. They, however, asked over and over if DC was going to be okay, if they were sure they wanted to go, that it was okay to be scared and pull out, nobody would mind, are they really sure....

It was all well meaning but it left the child second guessing what their parents wanted them to do or say and every time the child went from wanting to do the club to crying and refusing to leave their mum. They were just overwhelmed with the level of decisions and responsibility. The kinder thing to do is to take control unless there is a reason not to do so, if DC know that you are happy with a situation then they relax about it - they are taking their cue from you.

Obviously your situation might be different, but it's worth taking a step back and reflecting on how you interact.

I'd stop worrying about clubs for a 5 year old. There's plenty of time for that.

It sounds like he's doing really well in most areas and the chief problem is his attachment to you. If he is in the same space as you he wants to be right next to you and have your attention.

I'd try an approach of giving him really good quality 1-to-1 attention for half an hour followed by you doing a job for five minutes, with the agreement that if he leaves you in peace to do the job (ie not touching you or talking to you) for five minutes, you'll have time afterwards for another activity with him. Tell him the plan beforehand.

Do this three days in a row and see if it starts to work. If it does, extend the time of the job that you do but always go back and give attention afterwards.

Obviously this isn't sustainable for weeks on end but it might be a good investment.

If he's good at Maths he might like an approach I take with my DD. We draw an analogue clock and portion out the day visually into periods of half an hour or an hour, each labelled with the activity (ie play monopoly, Mummy vacuum, TV time while Mummy cooks dinner, go to playround etc.). That way DD knows the plan and can see that the hour where I'm busy with jobs will be followed by a segment of time spent with her.

I can't really comment on diagnosis process in the UK because we live abroad. It was more that I kept seeking advice from his teacher, his paediatrician etc and they would dismiss it so I thought OK, I'm being silly, and would wait a bit longer - it was only when I got really insistent that they did the referral. I think if I had been a bit more clear and concrete about what was happening at home that it might have been taken more seriously earlier on.