Is it possible for sleep training to not work?

[Dinosaur27]

So I’ve posted before about this but wanted some more advice.
I have been sleep training my baby for about a month now but it hasn’t made much difference with wake-ups.
The progress we’ve made is that he now takes all his naps in his cot and falls asleep in his cot for bedtime.
I’ve noticed that when I put him down for bedtime, he doesn’t wake for mostly 2-3 hours after, which is a definite improvement I guess because before it was 45 mins-1hour before. But after that first stretch, he is still waking every hour or so and ends up in my bed at some point.
I guess I’m confused as to how this works because my understanding was that sleep training helps baby fall asleep independently so if that’s the case then why is he still waking a lot??

How old is baby?

There could be so many reasons why he's waking up. Is he hungry, thirsty, cold, hot, in pain, uncomfortable, napping too late in the day?

@takealettermsjones he’s 13 months. I don’t think it’s pain or too hot/cold.
Could well be hunger after midnight as I do still night feed him but between 7-12 he has no feedings yet still waking so not sure why.
Naps he has 2 normally at 10 and 2:30. Timings vary but most naps last between 30mins and 1 hour.

I am certainly no expert just going off what I did with my eldest, but I think I'd be looking at getting rid of the night feeds and giving something big ish that you know he will eat before bed. So e.g. if he's picking at dinner maybe give something like Weetabix for supper and then no night feeds. He could be waking up randomly because he knows a feed is coming but he can't tell when?

@takealettermsjones thank u yeah that makes a lot of sense, will try night wean and hopefully that will make a difference!

Your baby hasn't read the part where if he falls asleep independently then he won't need your help to get back to sleep if he wakes in the night. Neither of mine read that bit either. I mean, I read it to them many many times, and both of them only got it around 4 years of age.
Sorry.

Unfortunately in my experience yes it’s possible for it not to work. Babies are individuals and what works for one won’t necessarily work for another. DD1 was sleep trained and an absolute blessing (sleep wise). DD2 was the absolute opposite, absolutely nothing I tried ever worked. She’s now 5 and just sleeping through….

Not every baby needs the same amount of sleep.
Bathing at night can also be an issue for some.
There is nothing that will work for every child or there would be so many people trying to sell their version.

A month seems like a very long time. Have you been consistent in yiur method? The naps during the day are vital as overtired and undertired affect night sleep.

Sleep training doesn’t work because you cannot train sleep. It’s a developmental skill they learn when they’re ready.

Those who have “sleep trained” have instead just trained their babies not to ask for help if they need it. They still wake just as much, they’re just silent because they know nobody is coming.

The baby and child sleep industry is multi million dollar, there are hundreds of experts, even more books, dozens of theories, because....

it doesn't work. If it did, there would be one way and we would all know about it.

A bit like the diet industry, everyone is so desperate for a quick fix, yet calories in vs calories out is basically it, just like time, acceptance and patience for baby sleep is it.

Sleep training doesn't necessarily mean nobody's coming. You can try to help a baby sleep longer without leaving them alone. OP didn't say she wasn't willing to go in and help baby when he wakes.

@Judgyjudgy yes, I’ve been pretty consistent other than one day I was ill so just fed him to sleep for naps. Other than that tho he’s fallen asleep without feeding or rocking in his bed.

@takealettermsjones

@takealettermsjones dk what happened but my response deleted!
I said that I’ve never left him alone and am always with him either rubbing his back or stroking his hair. If he cries for more than 2/3 minutes a pick him up, cuddle till calm, then try again.

Unfortunately it can definitely not work. I’ve known multiple people where it’s made their babies sleep worse. It’s not some easy solution to everything like some people like to preach. Every baby is different and yours is still pretty young tbh.

Exactly, I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to get him to sleep longer, which is better for him in the long run anyway! People just assume that any mention of "sleep training" automatically means cry it out, which is not the case. ❤️

This is incorrect. There have been many studies of sleep training which use objective observation of babies’ sleep, not just parent reports, and they consistently show improvements (fewer wakings) as against non-sleep trained babies. See, for example, this 2006 evidence review: https://aasm.org/resources/practiceparameters/review_nightwakingschildren.pdf at paragraph 4.5. (The review also notes that these studies show a high level of agreement - >90% - between parental sleep diaries and the objective measurements, indicating that parents of sleep-trained babies are aware of their child’s wakings).

Sleep training isn’t for everyone and that’s absolutely fine, but to talk about it that way is needless scaremongering.

This is so wrong 🤣 I think you might be thinking of the CIO method of ancient times. Babies possibly do wake, as do all humans woth sleep cycles, but they can self settle which is a great skill to have, which many adults have not mastered. Perhaps do some research before you judge because there are many ways to sleep train and most don't involve leaving your baby to cry for hours or even more than a few minutes

It might be the naps, have a Google. At that age, mine slept 9.30 - 10.00, then 12.30 until about 3.00. Then bed was 7.00pm - 7.00am. I think some of my friends may have had naps around 11, then around 2 so it may be the timing with these. Also taking baby into bed again at night probably isn't helping. Unfortunately I'm no expert on this so I don't want to offer too much incase I tell you something wrong. Can you engage a professional to assist? I feel if you mess around with it too much in the wrong way, you may make it worse. Check baby is getting enough food so isn't waking for hunger, and also while they're probably old enough now, you could avoid red meat at night as that can have a negative effect (although I think this is usually a younger age). Sorry I can't be of more help!

It is possible to find different ways to help certain babies sleep and sometimes sleep for longer, but sleep is developmental and if your baby still naturally needs to wake they will wake. The most recent meta study of sleep training (can’t remember how many studies included but it was something like 14000 infants included of a range of ages) found parents who sleep trained reported their baby sleeping for an additional 16 minutes a night over parents who’s babies hadn’t been sleep trained. There’s a lot of development going on at 13 months, lots of babies are wakeful around this time, even ones who were less wakeful before.

@Judgyjudgy some babies can naturally self settle, I watched my 3 month old roll over on her mat and go to sleep the other day which her brother never did, but I don’t think it can really be taught it comes by itself, and usually through having been supported to settle. The natural for our species is being supported to sleep, not falling asleep alone, and there’s no real benefit to baby to learning to sleep in supported only to the parents

I really do believe sleep is developmental and getting them to fall asleep independently makes no real difference to the amount they wakeup. If they’re waking up and crying it’s because of something and some babies are more vocal and need more support throughout the night than others.
our baby was a terrible sleeper waking every 2 hours-ish, no matter what we tried and we tried a lot. In the end it was time that did it. Now at 14 months old we still rock him to sleep every single night and he either wakes once in the early hours (4-5am) for a little drink or sleeps through. He can self settle now and I watch him do it on the monitor and we didn’t teach him that or do anything different. Only time he wakes really frequently is teething or illness.

I never did consistent sleep training but when DD learnt to self settle I thought great, she'll sleep now...but she didn't! I think you can try and teach children better sleeping skills and they learn patterns and routines etc. However there is no magic answer.

Sleep is developmental as inconvenient as that is. I’d drop him to one nap at lunch, night wean once you get past 18 months. Get as much support as you need for you in the interim.

I do suspect that sleep training works because the baby was ready for more "adult" style sleep patterns and the success is coincidence. I obviously have no evidence for this. Personally- I would just take him into bed with you. I'm in favour of the most sleep for the most people. Nothing is forever.