Parenting with someone with narcissistic personality disorder

[Evoname]

Need opinions please ..

Pretty certain my husband has npd. Not diagnosed (I mean how do you even get someone with npd diagnosed - that conversation would not go down well) rather than narcissistic traits

He had a difficult childhood. Bipolar mother. Abusive father.

Background. We have 2 kids- 6 and 2. I consider my self strong. I'm financially independent. He's always had these behaviours but usual story since having kids it's intensified...

My priority is my children. I can live with him. Or without. Basically what ever is best for them I will do

While I'm able to switch off from his behaviour... What's best for my kids? Stay with- more stability/ I can protect them to an extent/ remove from situation. Or... Leave... But then they are at risk of spending 50% of their time with him without me. There is a risk if we split he will move away so might mean lots of travelling for kids. They will also not want to be apart from me.

(Examples of behaviour towards kids and myself - constantly criticise/yelling/telling off/belittling/name calling. He stops if I call him out on it but only after a mouthful of abuse and name calling to us all and then goes off in a sulk. Lots and lot of coercive behaviour. )

Particularly interested in hearing from those with a narcissist parent what your thoughts are. Cutting off completely unlikely to happen (not that I'm familiar with family courts but can't imagine that being an outcome)

Any advice gratefully received

@SparklingLime no I mean when he is good he is good-attentitive/caring/fun. But also agree that makes the problem worse.

And I know wishful thinking /unlikely.

When my eldest was born he was more of the good dad with very occasional outbursts. Of which he sought help for. Hence decision to have kid number 2. All gone down hill since his dad died (already pregnant by this time)

So yeah I live in hope the good dad will come back but with only 10 good mins in a day when on holiday with no stresses I know it's unlikely.

I need that hope as I know I will have to handover my kids to him when we separate

Why are you on this thread? It is for advice from anyone who has dealt with NPD. Not the oft bandied about "narcs".

It is just about the worst sort of guilt a mother can have. You are not helpful.

Why are you on this thread? It is for advice from anyone who has dealt with NPD. Not the oft bandied about "narcs".

It is just about the worst sort of guilt a mother can have. You are not helpful.

I'm sorry.

How is your financial situation, op? Do you have access to your own money? Is it possible for you to hide money from him to build up an escape fund?

@Aquamarine1029 yes I'm very fortunate. I have savings and earn a good wage. moving out and supporting myself and kids won't be a problem other than emotionally and have a great group of friends although they may be shocked to learn of my situation as never spoken about it before. Wishing my parents were here to help me but that's one situation I don't have control of

If I were you, I would report his abuse and see a solicitor at your very first opportunity. You need to get your kids out of there.

I was married to a man like this. Diagnosis-BPD but 100% NPD. Obviously to get a diagnosis you have to take some responsibility for your actions. I stayed with him in part because I was also worried about my kids having to spend 50/50 with him. Guess what- he's never so much had them overnight. Found a new victim, then another and didn't want to know his kids. Leave please for them.

If you do that, make sure you never tell them you're leaving a paper trail. They will write it in their report and it will go against you in court.

Voice of bitter experience.

I could have written your OP, OP, and my biggest fear was what would become of my children alone with him. So I stayed and suffered. Only what I didn't realise what their suffering was very real too, not jsut from watching me being ill-treated but from not having a safe space to relax in. It has been so damaging for them I deeply regret staying but on the other hand they're now old enough to have a voice. When they're into double digits age bracket the courts will listen. My DC were older than yours so we were incredibly lucky in that they live with me and only visit the narcissist parent alternate weekend, and even then, only when they can.

You can be sure if they can't cope with visits it will come out at school and this will be noted. Just be really really careful what you say as mothers rights seem to be less than fathers rights now and we get blamed for everything! The new accusation is parental alienation (if the kids don't want to visit Dad it must be bad mummy making them hate him). So you have to be sure you are not false but as positive as you legitimately can be about their relationship with him, that you want it to be as good as it possibly can be. Which, we all know, will always be limited by his narcissism because they will never stop. Not for you, not for anyone. Lundy Bancroft YouTube videos are really worth watching as he talks of abusive men never changing unless they're forced to by someone else (never the partner, usually custody).

None of these are good reasons for putting up with abuse or stopping your children being protected from the same.

There is NEVER a good reason to abuse him. NEVER an excuse. People will have terrible burdens with ill, dying or dead parents and much more besides, and yet manage to avoid being abusive. It is ALWAYS his choice. You might notice he's not like this to his work colleagues or friends?

@FishWithoutAName I do agree. I'm honestly not excusing him. But just why it got to the point it has. I needed to be sure it wasn't just temporary as he dealt with everything that went on. The death of his father was definitely the turning point and his behaviour ramped up. Especially with COVID and lockdowns where he went from working away 5 days to being in 24/7 and no opportunity to deal with everything. You can be sure I would have sent him away or taken kids away or insisted on professional help or something

Yes he isn't like this outside the house. Everyone bloody loves him

Thank you all for sharing experiences. So much good advice ♥️

"Yes he isn't like this outside the house. Everyone bloody loves him"

This is also a clear sign. You need to educate yourself here; you're if for a shock.

Please read the thread about the family court before deciding

Put your kids first and stop making excuses for this man.

Your are allowing him to damage your kids with his constant shouting and random criticism.

It is your job to protect them.

Narcissists never change because they cannot self-reflect and accept that their behaviour is wrong. Having a crappy childhood is never an excuse to abuse others.

Your post actually made me angry because because you are letting your kids live in this environment.

@Greenfairydust not helpful. I had concerns about future possible outcomes- is it better for them to be alone with him for some time or around him all the time but with me there.

It's not as easy as take them away and problem solved. He will have rights and I'm aware of that. He used to work away so staying at one point was the better option.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen thanks for the reply. Now looking at the best way to approach the separation to ensure best outcomes for my kids. Going to contact a solicitor and get things in order

To be clear. I'm aware it's an abusive situation. I'm here to put my best foot forward and to do that I need advice from those who have lived it.

I'm not expecting tomorrow to wake up to rainbows and butterflies

OP, I recognise what hard position you are in because I've been there myself. I've asked exactly the same question as you, with exactly the same fear over 50-50 contact. What I didn't realise it was that staying was prolonging the abuse much more because they never got respite from it at all. Here on mumsnet people told me that 50% away from the abuse is actually better than 100% in the abuse with someone constantly jumping in to protect them. I didn't believe what I was told, and so I stayed, but when I began therapy and learned to stand up for myself, my sudden 'no' to his expectations got him to the point that he was the one that left. All of a sudden I was facing the 50-50, fear that I'd been trying to avoid. I won't lie, their deceptiveness that makes people love him, as you said earlier, also played into the court system and it wasn't until many court appearances later that he began to show his true colours, but even then, it was pretty hit and miss. It was only because the children were clearly suffering with the contact, which they will, then people sat up and took notice. It may have to get acute before anyone will take action, and it is so tempting to tried desperately to stay in the chronic drip drip drip of abuse, but with my child, it resulted in self harm so is never worth it. I can hear that you've been worn down by being with someone like this for as long as you have, you probably doubt yourself more than you ever have done in your life, so your best bet is to educate yourself. Do nothing but educate educate educate. you will be shocked and dismayed by what you find, but you will also be better prepared for the path ahead of you. Also, document, document, document. There is something about saying something happens every single day, it makes it feel very real, and helps to compensate for that amnesia we sometimes have in order to survive.

I grew up with an abusive mother (more than one therapist suggested possible NPD to me, but as you said - of course she's not been diagnosed. She's perfect, everyone else is the problem 🙄)

I remember, from around the age of 8 onwards, wishing that my parents would get divorced, so that I could get away from her some of the time. Earlier in my life my Dad did try to mitigate some of the effects of her behaviour on us, but over the years he seemed to get more and more worn down - he was having a lot of nastiness directed at him every day, too. Eventually he just stayed quiet, it wasn't worth challenging her on anything; she gradually got worse over time and challenging her on anything (or even just suggesting that she might have hurt someone's feelings) would make life intolerable for everyone, for days (or weeks, depending on how offended she was). Everyone got punished if one person upset her, so I do understand now why he might have chosen to stay quiet...but it's taken a long time to let go of the anger over him not protecting his children - I felt for a long time that if he couldn't have kept us safe with her around, he should have taken steps to get us away from her instead.

The upshot of all of this is that I've not spoken to either of them in a very long time. My Dad actually did end up taking her side/views on everything eventually - I'd imagine for a peaceful life once my siblings and I had all moved out. I've got c-ptsd and am still now, in my 40s, working through all of this.

I totally understand the fear of them being around him without you, when you can't protect them. This is hard to deal with, there must be so many conflicting thoughts running through your head, and you have my fullest sympathy.
I can only offer my view as someone who was a child in a situation like this, and I would agree with people who've said that having somewhere safe and relaxed (with just you) some of the time would be better than walking on eggshells (with him) all of the time.

Thank you both. So useful to hear from people who have experienced both perspectives. You've really helped me a lot 😊

Whilst it's true the home is a nightmare, how will those defenceless kids manage with their npd father 50% of the time with no help/defence from another adult?

I grew up with an NPD parent and it absolutely destroys your self esteem. Im not convinced you ever recover. Don't end it and then take him back, the cycles of abuse ramps up every time you do that, the abuse starts sooner and is worse.
You have the financial upper hand so I would use that to get a legal team in place who are used to winning. Blindside him as best you can because once he knows it will be war. Move all the money you can out of his reach, so he will have to spend his time and resources fighting for that, while you can focus on the child residency aspect. Frankly its a game of chess, and you only stand a chance if you are three steps away and extremely well advised.

https://open.spotify.com/show/2fUMDuTaHJrIhIeybVIfCz?si=ufVd8-ZzTAmr1p7WWy1kMg&dd=1

I listen to Dr. Ramani. You can also watch her on YT. One of the episodes talks about surviving marriage with a narcissist. I really like her and think she’s the best expert on narcissism/NPD out there.
Your concerns about the kids being alone with dad post divorce are a legit reason for staying in the marriage. I had this dilemma too… I stayed. The universe intervened and my ex is in prison so that solved that problem!
But I really, deeply understand the rock and hard place you’re in.

Practically
Will you need childcare, after school clubs, holiday clubs?

Put these in place now, so that you're not relying on him for childcare. When you decide to leave, it'll be easier for you and the kids. And also shows the courts you don't rely on him re shared care.

It'll be easier if you can think of a reason. Ie perhaps his behaviour is due to him being 'stressed/overwhelmed' so perhaps the kids could go to asc and see if this helps him?? Anything to reduce the amount of time he cares for them.

It is very, very unlikely that he will have the children 50% of the time. At the moment, he is abusing the children in their 100% of the time home. If you split, at least some of their time will be in your calm, loving home.

For my DS it's both anxiety and constipation plus reflux. He's had digestive problems since birth, the anxiety as far as I can tell came in to play around 4.5. Stbxh tends to make DS anxiety worse, I'm hoping he'll be a bit better once we can get our own place.

I very highly doubt this man will have his kids 50% of the time. That won't suit his purposes.