P1 Deferral (Scotland)

[Lillybank1]

Hi All, I have a little boy with a late December birthday, I have been tooing a frowing for months about whether to defer or not. I now need to make the decision on what to do. I just wondered is anyone else in the same boat? Is there any parents with children with earlier birthdays choosing to defer? Anyone overall thoughts and advice over what to do, I just don’t know what’s for the best 🙈

My DS is a late December birthday.We thought long and hard about whether to defer him or not.Academically he'd have been fine but we felt that he maybe wasn't quite ready emotionally.Also,thinking ahead to secondary school and exams we felt it might be better to be a bit older.In the end we decided to defer him as we thought we probably wouldn't regret deferring him but could potentially regret sending him too early.There were 3 children older than him in his class plus a couple of children with January birthdays.

I’m intrigued by all the people who feel that their kids were academically ready but not socially and emotionally ready as I feel my DD is more likely the opposite. But then how would I know if she were socially and emotionally ready? What would be the indicators for that?

Wow. I have a Jan DD and chatting to my NCT group /nursery mums / nursery teachers we are (were?) all ready to send our kids at 4.5 but thinking they will have a 6yo in their year group puts a different slant on things.

Also true - not convinced 4 year olds and 6 year olds should be in the same class that implies more than a year gap so doesn’t seem right for anyone.

A lot of people defer due to social / emotional development reasoning. This works well for some
kids but not all.

I know some deferred kids that aligned themselves to the staff in their extra year of nursery, becoming more “helpers” and separating off from the other kids. Don’t think this is a great thing as they start school thinking they align more to adults or are “different” rather than forming social bonds with other kids.

Such a tough call tho as it’s impossible to know how it’s going to work out except with hindsight. Hard decision!

I'm used to the English system of starting school at 4 rather than 4.5. DD started school in England at 4 years 3 weeks (then ended up in P1 a year later) so going at 4 years 10 months seems fine to me.

It’s probably different for everyone but my currently 4.5 struggles socially, wants to latch on to one friend and do everything with them, feels like don’t like her if they don’t want to do what she wants, struggles to really express what’s bothering her in the moment and instead gets very tearful. Academically she’s grand, writes her name, recognises many letters, interested in numeracy and basic sums etc, loves to do worksheets and draw etc.

My elder was a Jan bday and very bright as in a curious mind but couldn’t write her name etc at this age, wasn’t interested. She was very confident socially, had a wee peer group going into p1 that she’s still friends with. That was never a worry for me but I did worry about her managing her emotions, she was also prone to emotional outburst when she had big feelings. But that never happened at school in any event. Writing that is actually reassuring me about my younger - it’s just normal for 4-5yr olds to be pretty emotional at times isn’t it?

Anyway not sure if that answers your Q @FloorWipes ?!

I have a December birthday dd1 and a February birthday dd2. Dd1 is 13 so wasn't an option to defer at that time and tbh I probably wouldn't have anyway - she seemed so ready - very bright and sociable and mature for her age. K owing what I know now - with hindsight it still would have benefitted her to have been deferred and it was often apparent through primary that she was one of the youngest. Sometimes an issue with age restricted activities when some of her friends were nearly a year older than her. Dd2 I deferred without a moments thought and it's done her the world of good. Nursery were quite pushy not to though so I suspect they often try and move dc on where possible. If in any doubt I'd defer. No harm can be done from going a bit later but it can from going too early.

It's really normal for this to be the case in Scottish classrooms - there will be January and February birthday dc a year older than a few of their peers too. Not sure why December would suddenly be any different

@Beginningless Thanks for your response!

I do think it's normal for 4-5 year olds to be emotional to an extent. It is young - in P1 I remember how many children kept calling the teacher "mum". I also remember daily dramas and tears - amongst the girls anyway - about who was whose best friend and who got to be which Spice Girl at break, and one or two very memorable emotional outbursts from myself and others throughout primary school. I am genuinely not sure at what point you would say that a child's emotional regulation isn't sufficient, as this is something they are obviously all learning to manage! My DD can also be guilty of latching onto one friend - I've had talks with her about this.

I suppose on the plus side I would say my DD is confident and likes to speak to anyone of any age in any context. On the other hand, she is a bit oblivious to signals that they may not want to engage! I would say - but I've little to compare her to - that she is good at expressing her internal world. She will say things like, "when you said x, that made me feel like y". But she is still prone to meltdowns at home. She keeps it together as nursery. So..who knows?

I know some deferred kids that aligned themselves to the staff in their extra year of nursery, becoming more “helpers” and separating off from the other kids.
Interesting. I said upthread my DD who I'm not deferring has done this already and it's part of my rationale for sending her to school. She did move slightly early to the pre school section of nursery because she toilet trained at 2.5 and I think this had an impact.

But I do think if the age gap is extending to more than a year in the classroom then that's not ideal. The school class should be ready to accept 4 year olds as they are, and not have a situation where they are up against 6 year olds which is a big difference. (Reminds me of when people join beginners language classes as a refresher, but are in no way beginners...) It's 2023 and the classroom incorporates a lot of play and is very much a transitional year - at least it's meant to be!

DS1 is now 15 (Christmas birthday) and I really regret not deferring him. Turned out he had ADHD anyway so would have struggled with certain aspects of school, but socially he is less mature.
He's also physically smaller than his peers.
Your wee one also had their toddler years during Covid and I can see how much less ready for school the current p1s seem to be.
As someone else said, no one seems to regret deferring.

Just do whatever you think will be best for your individual child.

I have a late November teen and we didn't defer - he's fine but I think would have done better in the early years of primary if we had. He'll also be (to me anyway!) very young when he finishes school next summer.

My other child is March born so only slightly younger than the deferred children in his year.

Both have friends who are outside the calendar birth year for their cohort and one of ds1's friends is a full 13 months older due to deferral. No-one comments on it one way or another.

The flexibility of the Scottish system makes it easier for parents to make the choice based on their child's needs. I do think over the next few years more August to Dec kids will be deferred and thus more 6 yr olds in the class to begin with.
In our school nursery class it looks like the nursery has changed the way it works with more pre reading and writing activities than before. I do think the start age for school is being pushed back.
My Sept born started a few weeks before turning 6, could read and write and do simple sums before school. Emotionally and socially she's in the right class. Being academically able allowed her to concentrate on the social aspect which she finds more difficult and to maintain her confidence and self esteem.
If she had gone in the year before I feel her confidence would have been knocked and thus her love of learning inhibited.
And she's not the oldest in the class.

I can see it backfiring too. If a child arrives reading and writing they could potentially view themselves as cleverer, and not need to really engage with the early work. They could potentially get a shock when everyone catches up and their advantage isn't maintained and they see that they were not inherently cleverer. Or not. But possible.

In an ideal world every child could start school when ready - but not in the same class.

I'm not sure how many 5 year olds are actually aware of being 'cleverer'. I work in primary 1 and none I've ever come across have noticed what reading level their peers are on. Dc are grouped according to their ability for any formal learning so shouldn't be bored or finding anything too easy

It's something I remember vividly from primary. Everyone knows who is "clever" and where they are in the sets. It was always a huge source of angst among pupils are parents. That may buy a have been my school. But how would you not notice if you can read and everyone else can't and interpret that in some kind of way?

*Pupils and parents

I do also recall laughing with my mum about how the sets were euphemistically named after colours rather than rank, as though kids are not smart enough to see through this. And if anyone doesn't realise - other kids will tell them! I was in the middle set at that stage.

I have an early January birthday, as you say just difference of a week. We've deferred, the nursery said he would be fine, but I don't want him to just be fine. I want him to thrive. I was a December birthday and felt immature and young, and struggled socially compared to others in my year group. I wish my parents had deferred me but it wasn't really a thing then. So that helped me with my decision. I think there is no rush, why not give a bonus year to play a bit more.

Because they are 5 and that isn't what is important to them. We don't have 'sets' to the DC's knowledge- they just get called over in small groups or individually. Honestly they are not thinking at that age who is smart and I doubt you accurately remember much from that age to know you did - as said once older the abilities have levelled up somewhat between those who just needed the bit of extra time

Just as a different perspective, I was the youngest in my year - end of February - and wish deferral had been an option when I was that age. I was academically very able, but socially not at all, which made me absolutely ripe for bullying and I was totally miserable.

My class in primary had a lot of kids with March birthdays so eg I turned six and then half my class turned seven a week later. I think that was probably quite unusual.

It's a tough choice, especially with a December birthday.

I had a February baby and deferred him but I went back and forth on the decision for months. In the end it was a good choice and I am happy with it but I would say;

(1) he's now in a composite class and works at the level of the upper class, despite being part of the lower class, and

(2) he learned to read and write very quickly once he started school and it has changed his life - he's a different, happier child. It's been the making of him. I wonder sometimes if I should have allowed that to happen earlier (he wasn't interested in me trying to teach him and I was pretty hopeless anyway!)

DH is a December child and in those days far fewer people deferred. He absolutely excelled at school academically but always felt a bit behind with sports and being smaller. That's maybe just the way he always would have been though.

Following with interest. We are in England and considering deferring a summer born child, is good to read about different systems/ perspectives. The English system of sending just turned 4 kids to school feels bonkers to me.

I didn't defer ds2 even though he was Feb birthday.
He was desperate to join his big brother and frankly I needed the extra money from him no longer being in full time nursery.
He was academically ready at the time, tall for his age and was mostly in composite classes with the year below.
The only time it was an issue was his maturity going through revision for exams, and he didn't get to go to uni because of poor results and I do wonder if he'd have done better if we'd deferred.

I have deferred my early December born son - lots of others in his nursery deferring too.
He would manage fine this year but I think the main benefit will come in high school when he’s a year older than he could’ve been and more mature to deal with exams etc. I’ve spoken to nursery and many teachers and many have said it can be between kids either surviving or thriving and I chose to give him an extra year - I see no rush. He’s a gentle soul and I think it will do him a lot of good!

So what did you end up doing? How is he getting on this year?