Food is always a battle with 5yo

[RangSoo]

5yo DS became really fussy with food when he was two, suddenly went off all his favourite foods and it was a struggle to get him to eat the few things he did enjoy.

He’s a bit better with variety now but getting him to sit and eat a meal is almost impossible if he’s not in the mood. He’ll refuse both dinner and tea if there’s nothing in that he fancies that day, then spends all day sobbing because he’s hungry and has no energy and doesn’t want a healthy snack, even refuses to play because he’s so exhausted, this is about 50% of the time. I refuse to give him snacks that he wants if he hasn’t eaten a meal (chocolate, crisps, biscuits, ice cream, mcdonalds) as obviously I don’t want him to think that he’ll get junk food if he refuses his meals, but he’s incredibly stubborn and this has been going on for years with neither of us ever giving in. He goes through phases of losing weight to the point where you start to see all his bones, it’s horrific. I’ve asked our GP surgery for help loads of times over the years but they just promise to put us in touch with a health visitor to speak to but then never do. I do give him junk/freezer food occasionally which he happily wolfs down, but it’s definitely never been a regular thing so I don’t understand why he’s so stubborn about it. He’s otherwise ‘normal’, very bright and sociable and well behaved so I don’t suspect any sort of neurodivergency.

It’s not that I’m offering him food that he doesn’t like because when he’s not being awkward he eats the meals I serve, it’s just that half the time he’s decided that he doesn’t want to eat anything besides junk food even if he ends up in tears from being so hungry. Me and DH sit at the table with him every single mealtime, don’t let him leave until everyone’s finished eating, don’t engage in arguments or battles about the food, give him a choice of two or three healthy options that we know he likes, make sure that the focus isn’t on him eating so that there’s no pressure. When he refuses and insists that he isn’t hungry we just chat about our days, then I clear mine and DH’s food away and we all leave the kitchen. 20 minutes later DS says ‘I’m hungry, what is there for me to eat?’ and I say ‘you’re tea is still on the table, I can heat it up if you like or there’s apples, bananas, strawberries and yogurts in’ then he starts throwing a tantrum so I leave him to it. He’ll work himself up into a right mess and cry for the rest of the evening saying he’s hungry, but screams angrily that he doesn’t WANT what’s available. I just can’t understand why he won’t just eat if it’s making him feel that ill! Everything that I’ve read online says to just be consistent and eventually they’ll learn that you won’t cave in, but it’s been years with no improvement at all. What can I do?

Oh, I also include him in meal planning and shopping and let him choose what he wants for the week but he just refuses the snacks and meals that he chose for himself on bad days. Please help!

That does sound hard.
He really is stubborn! I think you're doing all the recommended approaches and it's not that he's finding the food challenging - he's just deciding some of the time not to eat it.
Can you use a reward chart so for trying his food and not making a huge fuss? So you reward the 'good' behaviour around eating rather than the eating itself?
I'm hesitant to suggest offering the treats as rewards as he seems locked into these behaviours and associating the junk with rewards might be even less helpful for him..

Is he like this with anything else?

He gets a weekly reward chart from his martial arts class, he absolutely loves earning stars on it to get a new badge for his uniform but even that doesn’t work when it comes to food. The only thing we’ve had any success with is getting him to help cook the food, it’s made him open to trying all new flavours on good days but on bad days it makes no difference.

The only thing he was similar with was his iPad, he used to get an hour on it 4x a week but started refusing to play and just pestered non stop to play on his iPad outside his allotted time so we had to permanently confiscate it in the end. I do wonder if it’s some sort of addiction problem just based on that but I have no idea.

In the nicest possible way it sounds like he gets his stubbornness from you!

There is a lot in your original post about controlling him to your standards and him having very little control over his own wants or needs.

What does he get to choose? Does he ever get to chose what he wants to eat when he wants to eat? Would it be so bad for him to eat a bit and go and play and then come back and eat some more? If he could have unlimited time to iPad and he knew it was never restricted would it become less exciting maybe?

Feels like he needs somethings that are clearly in his control consistently so he knows and feels he has choice.

I know you do this stuff because you love him and you want what is best for him but maybe he needs more autonomy. You always want what you are told you can't have.

What does he want to eat?

He gets to choose what meals and snacks we’ll be eating that week, he gets to choose what he wants for tea from the meals that he’s chosen for the week, he gets to choose whatever snack he wants IF he’s eaten his meal, if he hasn’t eaten any of his meal then it’s a choice of fruit or yogurt or the uneaten meal is still available. I don’t force him or pressure him to eat, if I tell him I’ll be making tea soon and he says he’s not hungry yet I say that’s fine I’ll leave it a little while then. If he eats all his chicken but doesn’t want his veg that day that’s fine, as long as he’s eaten some of it. As I’ve explained, he doesn’t eat a bit then go play then come back for more, he just completely refuses to eat a morsel then starts tantrumming for chocolate. I’d say he has a lot more choice over what he eats than most kids do to be honest.

And no, he had freedom with the ipad originally and he ended up spending morning to night on it then screamed and cried because it was bedtime or we had to go out somewhere which is why limits were brought in.

Ice cream, chocolate biscuits, pringles and McDonald’s mostly! He does get a choice of treats (healthy and non healthy) on the days that he eats his meals and his grandma always end up taking him to McDonald’s when she has him once or twice a month so it’s not like he’s being denied these things completely. I sometimes wonder whether I should just be cutting out all junk food all the time but that feels really mean and extreme.

Does he take enough exercise?

Sorry multiple posts I keep thinking of another thing. Has he been to the dentist lately?
what home cooked things does he like?

I think you just have to keep on doing what you're doing.
Give him the opportunity to eat. Take away the food if he doesn't and ignore the tantrums. Praise him on good days and stay calm on bad days.

He has different sports clubs four times a week and rides his bike, goes to the farm, runs around with the neighbours kids on other days but if he’s not eaten then he gets really lethargic and keeps stopping to sit down, then bursts into tears afterwards from hunger. He goes to the dentist every six months and his last checkup was in January, the stuff I put on rotation because I know he likes it is:

Thai peanut chicken noodles
Sticky chicken with rice
Chicken curry
Bacon and mustard pasta with pear salad
Nando’s chicken with chips and sweet corn
Spagbol
sandwiches
Chilli with rice or nachos
Beans on toast
Chicken stew
Sausage eggs chips and peas
Chicken burgers
Stirfry
Pizza
fajitas
Cheese and ham toasties

Honestly it doesn’t look like a restricted diet, he’s active, not choosing soft food because of tooth pain, it sounds not that bad (I know tiresome but from his point of view). Could it be constipation? Bullying? Mouth ulcers? Ear ache? Does he try to get “control” in other ways? Does he do it in front of friends/relatives? Is it only with you?

I think you need to take the control piece out of the equation. It's not if you eat a healthy thing then you get the junk. I'd make a rule like we only have pudding on the weekends and give him that pudding no matter what he's eaten or not eaten. He sounds really anxious. I'd stop involving him so much. I'd put a variety of food down and he eats what he eats. Then carry snacks on you. I'd do that for a couple of months until it's not such a battleground.

Right, blunt question here

Does he actually eat all this stuff you've listed or did he used to eat it and is now refusing?

Thai peanut chicken noodles
Sticky chicken with rice
Chicken curry
Bacon and mustard pasta with pear salad
Nando’s chicken with chips and sweet corn
Spagbol
sandwiches
Chilli with rice or nachos
Beans on toast
Chicken stew
Sausage eggs chips and peas
Chicken burgers
Stirfry
Pizza
fajitas
Cheese and ham toasties

If he eats all of this, then what is it that he's not eating/refusing to eat?

I have a house full of fussy/picky eaters. They'd never eat all of that above. Seriously choose your battles. Is it really the end of the world if he lives on a rotation of the same seven meals on the same days of the week? My eldest is autistic and this is my life. He eats the same meals on the same days of the week. Every week. God help you if you deviate from that!

And despite what the MN experts will tell you, a child WILL starve themselves. My DS2 did. He has always been a grazer and even now does not eat a full meal.

I'd take away the anxiety around food because he sounds really stressed out about it. Serve up a small meal (add bread and butter) and a dessert at the same time and just let him eat whatever he wants with no pressure. Sometimes the dessert might be fruit and yoghurt other times cake and custard make no comment whatever he chooses to eat. He will undoubtedly eat dessert first for a while but that's fine. I think once you stop focussing so heavily on food his anxiety will lower and he will be happier eating what is offered

I have no experience of this but have you looked at Solid Starts? They’re on instagram and have a website with lots of resources around picky eating and eating behaviours in children which might be helpful.
solidstarts.com

My 3 yo currently eats

plain pasta
apples
yoghurts
milk
Quorn slices
oven chips
peas
strawberries
cheese oatcakes
sweets / ice cream (which are limited).

honestly, I figure if she gets some carbohydrates, protein and vegetable matter each day I’m doing well, and I try not to stress about it any further than that!

Oh, I forgot cream of Tom soup, bread and cucumber . And pizza . Think that’s it!

Maybe he needs less choice over his food.
We used Getting the Little Blighters to Eat at this stage and the division of responsibility - parents decide what is for meals, children decide how much to eat.

We still have problems but ignore any tantrums, DS often comes back and eats what he said was "disgusting" though I am a bit frustrated at the range of meals we have, if he doesn't like the meal, it's fruit or cereal but not for at least an hour after tea time.
If we offered him fruit or yoghurt immediately he'd just take them and not eat the main.

Yes he absolutely likes all of those. He’ll eat one of the meals without complaint and even ask if we can have the same again tomorrow. The following week he’ll completely refuse to eat that same meal, even though he’s chosen it. Then the week after he’ll eat it all and tell me how much he loves it.

If he’s in a good mood then he’s happy to try anything new so long as he helps prepare it so that he knows what’s in it, usually he likes the new dish but if he doesn’t I say that’s fine, well done for trying it then make him something quick that we know he definitely does like which he then eats. It’s all down to what mood he’s in on the day.

Honestly isn’t it quite normal to live something one week and not feel like it the next week? I think just focus on how he politely says no, and what he CAN eat if he’s still hungry (bread and butter? Cereal? Cheese? Fruit?)

@Sarain @hiredandsqueak he does seem really anxious about it, he’s always been a bit of a perfectionist. I’ve only started giving him so much choice and involvement over the last 6 months or so, it has helped and we get a lot more good days now and he’s much more open to new foods but it’s not eliminated the problem completely. I don’t pester him or make a big deal out of him not eating, I just say that’s fine and offer him fruit or yogurt when he asks for food. I will try offering him unhealthy snacks sometimes on a bad day but I think that will probably make the problem worse, he’ll just start refusing his meals on good days too because he thinks he’ll get chocolate instead.

Does he eat his school/nursery dinners? What’s he like with breakfast? Does he have snacks when he comes home from nursery/school?

He won’t eat anything at all on bad days apart from chocolate or crisp. He’s got lots of snacks available like different fruits, crackers, cheese cubes, yogurts, fridge raiders, rice cakes. All favourites of his half the time, but the other half of the time he just completely shuts down and tantrums all night long for chocolate and McDonald’s.