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Parenting

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Struggling so fucking much

52 replies

Mammmmama · 05/02/2023 19:52

DS 13mo

never slept through the night. I am on my knees exhausted I don’t even know what I’m doing wrong

it just took an hour to get him to sleep when he was clearly tired

DH thinks we should do controlled crying. I can’t leave him to cry at all so this is hard

hes pulling to stand and standing and doing little steps but so wobbly so he’s constantly slipping and tumbling and I feel like constantly falls and I’m on edge so scared he’ll hurthimself

im so lonely and upset I am suffering majorly with a lack of sleep I was losing my patience getting him to bed and even said “why are you doing this to me” which I feel physically sick at I can’t believe I said something like that when he doesn’t even mean it

im sorru I just need to vent

OP posts:
walkinthewoodstoday · 05/02/2023 21:30

I'm getting a double floor bed once mine is a bit older.

cadburyluver · 05/02/2023 21:31

This is the book I did before with my first and it worked a treat

Check this out! amzn.eu/d/boJyLt2

Hatscats · 05/02/2023 21:31

Controlled crying might work for a chilled out type of child - it would definitely not work for me and it would be hysterical screaming for hours.
if it doesn’t work after a few mins then it is cry it out - 10/15 mins crying alone for a baby is cry it out.
sleep goes crap when they are learning new skills - big changes in their lives - learning to walk is one of them!
they all sleep well eventually - some just take longer than others.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

cadburyluver · 05/02/2023 21:32

Hatscats · 05/02/2023 21:31

Controlled crying might work for a chilled out type of child - it would definitely not work for me and it would be hysterical screaming for hours.
if it doesn’t work after a few mins then it is cry it out - 10/15 mins crying alone for a baby is cry it out.
sleep goes crap when they are learning new skills - big changes in their lives - learning to walk is one of them!
they all sleep well eventually - some just take longer than others.

Good point - it does depend on the baby! Mine would not have settled and my second baby is high needs also 🤣

Ohhhhhlalala · 05/02/2023 21:47

Hugs.
14 month old not sleeping and I’m pregnant and exhausted!!!!!!!!!!

cathyj87 · 05/02/2023 22:00

Oh this is such a hard sleep age! As other people have mentioned, sleep goes to crap when they're learning new big skills like walking.
My daughter didn't consistently sleep through until 2.5 and even now (3.5) will wake a few nights a week with a nightmare etc and need someone to comfort her. Him knowing you will come running when he's upset is not a bad thing, he's not manipulating you, he's a baby and needs you so if leaving him doesn't sit right with you then don't do it.
Also ignore the people saying he will be happier and healthier on "solid unbroken sleep", he's stirring at the end of his sleep cycles for a safety check which is biologically normal. If he's content everything is OK he'll just go back to sleep without even realising he's woken (we do it too as adults), they cry when they think something isn't OK (usually Mum isn't there). It kills us because our sleep cycle is being interrupted in the middle of it, they don't get that same disruption.

There are lots of gentle sleep training methods and some great Facebook groups which can give more specific advice. I've found Mumsnet to be very pro CIO and controlled crying, if it's not you don't feel pressured into doing it because of all the unicorn babies here.

Hugs and solidarity. "This too shall pass"

BertieBotts · 05/02/2023 23:03

YY I think it is a tricky age psychologically when they still don't sleep - actually thinking back I had a bit of a crisis when both DS1 and DS2 were that age because of it. It seems like everyone else has found a groove, either sleeping through or co-sleeping and happy with it and if you're not then it's torture.

The lengthy bedtimes as well, argh. You're not shit for getting frustrated and shouting. I think every parent has done that. It's really not a big deal. Of course it's not the ideal way to handle things, but that doesn't matter - you don't need to be ideal all of the time. As long as you are doing well most (ie, more than half) of the time, then you're doing fantastically! That is what research shows is the important thing in attachment and building resilience and happiness in children - what you are like on average most of the time. Give yourself a break for not being perfect.

Does he still nap twice a day? You might try changing to a single nap late morning or early lunch/after lunch, that ought to mean that he is more tired at bedtime and falling asleep more quickly. Also, don't sit in the bedroom for an hour+ trying to get him to sleep. If he's not sleepy within 15 minutes then come out and try again in an hour's time. What we did differently with DS3 was if he doesn't fall asleep quickly, DH comes in and we both sit there and play with him a bit then we say goodnight and I try to get him down again. This is much less frustrating and lonely for me.

I agree that part time co-sleeping is a bit of a pain. I moved DS2 to his own room at 12m but he would come in part way through the night like this. I didn't actually get serious about keeping him in his own bed until he was over 2. Once I made the rule for myself, it did work, I just had to be more consistent with it. However, I would not do a whole year+ of ANY walking between rooms at night again, and I haven't with DS3. I moved him about a month ago but this is with the goal of doing the more consistent process I did with DS2. For this I gave myself a kind of "watershed" so I'd try and resettle him in his room until midnight, then shifted it to 1am, then 1:30, then 2am etc until I got to 4am. If he was waking more frequently than 1 hour, or I had 2x failed attempts to put him down, then I'd bring him in anyway. I had originally thought that moving him to his room might magically make him sleep, alas it did not! So if I had any more babies (I won't) I wouldn't move them until I was ready to try and night wean, which is what I'm doing this time.

At the same time, I introduced a delay before feeding. Originally, when he cried at night I would rush into the bedroom and almost feel panicked like I had to fix it immediately, so what I changed was that first, I'd think well, OK I might be stuck in there for a while, so I'll go for a wee first. I found that sometimes, by the time I'd had a wee, he'd actually gone back to sleep. I think he would have a dream and the dream would have moved on to a nicer place, or sometimes he'd have a little gas bubble and he'd fart and then feel better, so he didn't actually need me to do anything at those times. Once I got my head around this, then I was able to lie in bed just for 30 seconds or so to think OK, is this just a dream sound, is it just a gas bubble, no, he does need me, OK, still do a wee first - he still does need me, OK. And then when I got into the room, I didn't rush to him. I looked at my watch to check the time and I stretched out walking to the cot, reassuring him, picking him up and walking to the chair and opening my clothing. I didn't add any new soothing tactics like ssssh or stroking him in the cot because this always just made him annoyed. I just did everything that I would normally do, but slowly. I stretched it all out until it took 5 minutes, then I let him latch on. You can start with a lesser delay if you want to. Try 3 minutes. Try 2 minutes.

This did two things. First, he could see that I was there, he was comforted by me being there, he could tell that the milk was coming. Second, I learned that there was no emergency if I did not respond instantly, and that there was a way for me to comfort him that did not involve instantly breastfeeding. Yes, he was still crying while waiting. But he was not ramping up, like he (and DS1) always had if I tried to introduce any other way of soothing, if DH had gone in, if I tried to just stand there and not interact, if I did not enter the room, all of this had always made me feel horribly guilty. I also always had this very anxious, over-empathetic response to them crying. It's normal. It's healthy. We are supposed to react to them crying, that's how they would have survived in caveman times. I don't know why specifically this tip helped me but it helped me enormously, it helped me to feel in control.

Now I was supposed to increase the delay as I (and he) got used to it up to a maximum of 20 minutes, hence timing it to begin with. But I found that I never actually needed to time it. I naturally did not immediately offer milk unless he started to become more upset and as soon as he started falling asleep before I fed him and he didn't get taken into our room he just stopped waking up. It wasn't that fast, but it was much faster and more effective than I was expecting.

Mammmmama · 06/02/2023 12:36

Thank you for all the advice and solidarity :) it’s so tough and we had a rough night last night but I’m trying to be hopeful

He has 1 mid day nap. Latest waking is 2pm

I normally stay in the room while he takes his time to go to sleep, DH mentioned maybe try not to tonight?

he doesn’t cry so much he just has a lively 20 mins and usually goes down great then

BUT it’s the night waking and we’ve had quite a lot of nights where he’s awake 1-2 hours at a time?!

OP posts:
Andsoforth · 06/02/2023 12:45

I felt like you OP, in fact when my dc cried I felt it physically like a stabbing pain.

I was at breaking point when I let ds cry himself to sleep. It took 3 nights and then he would settle down for naps and night sleeps happily with me tucking him in and walking away.

He was much happier afterwards and I felt guilty I hadn’t done it sooner.

He didn’t sleep through the night until 3 and a half so I can’t tell you miracles about that, unfortunately. By then his dsis was taking up the slack.

I had friends whose babies slept through from 6 weeks. I’m a haggard shell of my former self.

Letting ds cry himself to sleep was the hardest thing I did as a parent but not something I regret.

BertieBotts · 06/02/2023 13:04

DS2 went through a phase of that, wanting/needing to be awake for 2 hours in the middle of the night 😖Lyndsey Hookway calls this "split nights". I didn't know it had a name at the time or was something that could be addressed! I just thought his brain was busy working on something. He would often be very methodical and/or physical at these times. He grew out of it, I can't remember exactly when.

Mammmmama · 06/02/2023 13:59

@BertieBotts is there any cause to ‘split nights’ I feel this is what we’re suffering with! But how do I fix it or is it just a ride the storm type of thing

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 06/02/2023 17:06

I don't know, sorry, I never ended up looking into it because I didn't know it was a thing at the time and by the time I learned about it he had grown out of it.

I think she says it can be caused by them having lower sleep needs than you're trying to get them to have over the full 24 hours, so might be worth trying a later bedtime or shorter nap. I'll see what I can find.

www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=891445324626924

Mammmmama · 06/02/2023 19:40

@BertieBotts thank you :) x

OP posts:
Mammmmama · 06/02/2023 19:41

Thank you so much everyone honestly. A day later I feel better in general but this really helped me last night. Thank you all :) <3

OP posts:
Reluctantadult · 06/02/2023 21:41

My daughter had split nights at age 4yo until 5. It nearly killed me off. She would wake at 1:30am like an alarm had gone off and be up 3 or 4hrs. In the end I used a sleep consultant to help. So when my son seemed headed that way age 12m I called her again. I didn't think normal sleep training was going to work. She helped me tweak his daytime routine and then do controlled crying at night. He actually didn't really cry at night. Partly because he'd been well set up by sorting days. It was almost as though me going in and trying to 'get' him back to sleep had been inadvertently fueling the problem.

Sucessinthenewyear · 06/02/2023 21:54

Mammmmama · 05/02/2023 20:22

@Sucessinthenewyear potentially he’s got most of the front ones and some near the back but when I try to put teething powder on he won’t let me so I can’t feel more bless :(

and really? He’s my first baby and I don’t know anyone really with babies

apaet from BIL who DH insists all his kids sleep through and never wake…. so yea that’s the only thing I’m comparing to🤦🏻‍♀️ they’re 4 and 13mo (like DS)

Yep unfortunately so. Here is some info
about baby sleep. www.basisonline.org.uk/normal-sleep-development/

Some kids do sleep through from a young age but it’s an exception. Not all parents are truthful either. I wonder if BIL is sleeping through while SIL isn’t.

Teething powders aren’t medicine and the only in them which helps is sugar. If
he is teething give nurofen and anbesol liquid (only available behind the counter at pharmacies).

GrimsbyOrangePippin · 06/02/2023 22:25

Some children do need the kindest version of controlled crying that you can put in place, for their own wellbeing. It is also important that you are rested so as not to make yourself ill, as he needs you, and you need to be safe to look after him and potentially take him out and keep him safe there, and maybe drive too? If you are that exhausted it is also bad for him as interactions won't be optimal. Using some version of controlled crying really won't affect his long term development much if at all (although the sleepnessless, the nature of care and interactions, and potential family breakdown at the extreme, might well do more harm), so long as the home life and the various relationships within it are otherwise very good. 'Good enough' parenting is what you need to aim for, there is no such thing as perfect parenting. Flowers

GrimsbyOrangePippin · 06/02/2023 22:27

Sorry, of course this doesn't apply if the problem is actually teething, great advice upthread, so get that sorted or worked through first, before tackling underlying sleep problems left over.

BumpyaDaisyevna · 06/02/2023 22:29

Ah. He's just reaching a massive milestone as he learns to walk. He's turning from baby to toddler.

I think once he settles into walking his sleep might settle too. For one thing if he's running about in the day he might be more tired.

Sympathies OP. You aren't doing anything wrong at least - this is how it is. My son was so unsettled and grumpy whenever he was around a big milestone.

It's seems never ending now but really this is a tiny snippet of your overall life with your son. Soon enough he won't want to be near you and he'll be on his x box with his mates. You can laugh but it happens in the blink of an eye!

HopelesslyHopeful87 · 06/02/2023 22:50

Have you looked at his routine a bit more in depth? If his last nap is ending at 2pm with a bedtime at 7pm he may be overtired. That's 5 hours wake window which I think is quite long for a 13mo.

Have a look at the huckleberry app for guidance on a routine and wake windows and see if you can implement something better.

What does his typical day look like routine wise, wake up time, meals and naps? Bedtime routine?

You have my sympathy. You aren't alone and a lot of babies are still waking at this age. You don't need to do CIO or controlled crying. But he does need to learn to self settle and you also need to recognise when a baby is crying up and crying down. Maybe baby is crying down and learning to self soothe in that way and you're going in and disturbing that process. Just thinking out loud here.

I've got 4 kids and one didn't sleep til he was 3.5. One slept through from about 4 weeks old, another slept through about 1 yo and another about 6 months old. They're all so different

converseandjeans · 06/02/2023 23:11

What is your husband doing to pull his weight in this situation?

Well it sounds like DH is keen to solve the problem & is supporting idea of letting him self settle but OP keeps going back into see him.

You need a routine of sorts & to be stricter. Mine slept well but if they did wake in the night they would be kept in dark, no talking etc if it's too much fun they won't go back to bed.

Is he bottle fed? You could get DH to settle after a certain time. I think you going in is making it more worthwhile waking up.

Blablablablaba · 07/02/2023 07:51

My first born was a great sleeper and slept through most nights from 6wks.

Second born is now 3 and never sleeps through. She also sleeps in my bed most of the night. We put her to sleep in my bed. This can take around an hour regardless of how exhausted she is 🙄 This has been since we took her dummy away, before that she wld be sleeping in 10 mins.

Carry her through to her bed once we are going to bed and she usually comes back through about 2am. She then gets in and annoys the life out of us. She kicks the covers off a lot, so we have to put her on top of the covers. She takes her socks off then screams for them to go back on. Often wakes up screaming for a cuddle, no I don't want a cuddle 🤷🏻‍♀️ She's just a massive pain in the arse when it comes to sleeping 😩 The only gd thing she does is sleeps until about 8-9am.

She had me awake about an hour in middle of the night with all the carryon! Some kids just don't sleep through! Even my eldest still comes through most nights for a wee cuddle.

It does get better, like I say youngest always been a bad sleeper. At the age of ur little one she used to scream the house down until I took her downstairs in middle of the night. She's still scream down there too sometimes. By time she was nearly 2 she had settled down a lot and wasn't waking so much and I was getting a lot more sleep. Still disturbed sleep though like I currently get.

Ricco12 · 07/02/2023 07:55

Some babies don't sleep, it's not "normal" for them to sleep many hours. We as a society have tried to make it normal but they just aren't designed to sleep long periods

My now 8 year old who sleeps 9pm till 6.30am never slept more than 45 minutes till he was 10 months old then for the next couple years it was 3 hours

He started sleeping through night at 5-6 years old .

It is exhausting though and you very much have my sympathy. But please just be aware some kids don't sleep like others do.

Scalessayeek · 07/02/2023 08:12

We did controlled crying with my first (sort of, she’d go down for daddy but not me and he went on holiday skiing so I ended up doing it). It took 2/3 nights and she would go down no problems for me after that.

What happens in the night when he wakes and you’re co-sleeping? Our LO used to just sit there and amuse herself for an hour (sometimes poke us and have a climb round). Then she’d settle back to sleep herself.

BertieBotts · 07/02/2023 08:29

We had DS3 up last night, he's not feeling well, so he has been extra clingy and the bedtime feed went on for ages as he was in such a light sleep and kept waking up when I tried to take him to his cot (not even when I tried to put him down!) so after 2 failed attempts I asked DH to vacate the bedroom and I took him in there, but he'd had so much sleep already that this just totally woke him up and he didn't then go back to sleep until DH came to bed at 10, and even then we both had to lie down and ignore him, then he did the thing where he amuses himself for a while (which yes, does unfortunately include poking eyes and mouths to see what happens) and then laid down to sleep. It was funny because I have used that technique lots and lots, but DH isn't used to it and kept saying "Come and lie down with me" and cuddling him and it just keeps him engaged and awake. I had to tell him to pretend to be asleep :D

But during the earlier evening part, 8-10 or so, I did think about this thread and I thought the #1 thing that makes it easier to cope with is having a sense of humour about it, and it's much easier to do that if you can kind of both come to an agreement that if one of you is stressing the other should be laid back and then the stressed one can follow the laid back one.

They can be so funny and determined and interesting when they have your sole attention without the distraction of other children, screens, appointments, mealtimes, jobs to be done, everything else that seems to happen during the day. It always reminds me that I really value that time and must try to make space for it in the daytime too.