PLEASE HELP ME - I am struggling with my 3-y o dd and newborn ds

[peggotty]

I am just about at the end of my tether - my dd has just turned 3 and I have a 3 week old ds - I can't cope. I am being absolutely bloody vile to my dd I am scared I am going to do her emotional damage - I can't speak to her without a horrible impatient tone and spend most days shouting at her. She is obviously reacting to the baby by being cheeky stroppy etc but I am doing EVERYTHING
wrong in the way I am handling her. I am struggling with bf-ing my ds and have no time or patience with anything else - I feel like I am out of control of myself. I don't know what to do. It's not her fault I've had a baby but I resent her presence, I just wish she wasn't around at the moment - how shit does that make me. I don't deserve children.

I'm due in a couple of weeks and have a 2.6 year old. I'm struggling to and the baby isn't even here yet!

I feel sad because I remember when ds was born it was just the two of us at home all day and I could cuddle him and breast feed him as much as I want without giving any thought to anyone else. It was such a lovely time and I think I'm going to find it hard that I won't have those relaxed early days with this one.

Sorry no help really but I hope it gets easier for you soon.

You are not shit.

You do deserve children.

You will cope.

OK, you have already registered that you are doing things wrong with her, so that's half the battle. I presume that she is being extra clingly, irritating and generally horrible.

This is normal.

She is still your beautiful, wonderful little girl and you still love her hugely. You're just struggling at the moment with lack of sleep, new responsibilities, new routines etc.

Try to involve her in the new baby. Tell her that babies are boring because they can't play/walk/sing nursery rhymes and that you need your big girl to sing to you.

Get her to pass nappies to you and generally help with the baby. Try to make her feel involved, not left out.

And if she needs some attention, the baby won't come to any harm if you leave him to cry for a few minutes while you give your toddler a hug.

It will work out fine. It really will, I know that it doesn't feel like it right now, but you will come out of this.

Do you have a dp/dh who can look after them both for a couple of hours and let you have a bath/nap/trip to the shops on your own/visit the pub?

I am trying to involve her - today she helped me give him a bath. Things go ok for about half an hour then she starts whinging and I fly off the handle. I am bloody knackered, my ds cluster feeds a lot of the time so I can't really leave him with anyone at the moment. My dh was ill this week so I've been completely on my own in looking after them both, so I suppose that's not helped. I feel sometimes like there's light at the end of the tunnel then other days I can't.

echoing what squonk says

My DS was five when my DD was born and that was hard enough, I really feel for you.

but it does get better and you will get through it.

will your DD be starting nursery soon? That will give you and your new bub some time together and your Dd will have some outside stimulation so things should settle down then.

Keep telling her what a fab big sister she is and how much you love her.

I found that getting a reading book out with DS beside us on the couch weas a good way of giving him some attention and letting him see that we could all be involved together. He got to holdthe book and turn the pages as well which he likes to do!

Very wise words there from squonk. I had exactly the same situation with my 3 yo dd and newborn ds.

Things that helped were:

my Mum was around and was able to take some pressure off, with both of them (but a friend could fill the same role)

I did sometimes leave ds to cry, didn't kill him and hasn't scarred him for life

I got a lock for his bedroom door so I could go to the loo or even have a bath without the fear of him being murdered

we devised this peculiar game where the bed turned into a car, little brother was the driver (lying on his back and waving his arms in the air) and she was the one who decided where to go and what to buy in the shops (mainly enormous packets of sweets). The fact that she was able to get (some) enterntainment out of him helped us a lot, and it was the first thing we did together, all of us.

she did help with the feeding and changing but only when she wanted to, I didn't push it

I read aloud and sang to her a lot while feeding him

I had made sure to get her into playschool before he was born, so she wasn't ousted by him, but it did give me a break

wise words from squonk
get in as much help as you can. mom, mil, sister, neighbour. kindly old lady who lives down the road? tesco.com. and of course a dp, if you have one.
try to get your dd1 involved with the new one. you may be struggling with breastfeeding, but, can you possibly do it, whlist you and dd1 both watch a dvd/video, of her choosing? so the feedingbecomes about her? she needs attention.
when i had dc1, all i ever did was sstuff for him. even whenf eeding him, i just sat and watched him. with dc3, she was breastfed whilst watching tv with dc2, then 18 months. and immediatly put back downin her cot. she was only ever picked up to be fed, or changed. poor lo had no attention from me other than that, because i was too busy trying to stay relatively sane. i didnt have the outside help of mom,mil etc.
things that are completely unimportant right now:
housework, except cleanish clothes for the babies
cleanliness, if yo cna afford it, get a cleaner, but it is sooo completely unimpoortant right now.
home cooked meals. wonderful if you can,but if you cant, tesco etal do wonderful ready made meals. eating them for a couple of weeks wont harm you or you dd's.
ironing. dont even think about it.
vacuuming. why?
just be with your babies. and remeber you need to recover from the trauma your body went through three weeks ago. it is a big deal.
finally, lots of positive vibes for you.

Peggotty, much sympathy. I was exactly like this when DS was born.
Shouting at DD when all she was trying to do was to help me, let alone when she was unhelpful (ie normal 2 year old). I know exactly what you mean about feeling out of control of yourself. I was eaten up with guilt about the damage I thought I must be doing and her anxious little face.

If it is any reassurance, now 4 years later she seems to bear no sign of it at all, and she and DS get along fantastically well most of the time.

Three weeks is still incredibly early, isn't it. And especially when you want to bf and bond and get to know your ds without this noisy smelly demanding little person around as well.

First priority: getting yourself feeling calm and making a calm environment at home. If you haven't already, GIVE UP cooking & housework beyond the bare minimum (ie feeding you all). Is your dp/dh around and supportive? This is the time when he really needs to take over the chores for a while. If you are on your own, ask your HV about Homestart help. Go to bed as soon as the children are in bed. Put DVDs or CBeebies on during the day. Let DD play on the computer. Make a conscious choice that for 3 months you will not try to do anything more than survive each day and make DD and DS feel loved.
Second priority: reaffirming your relationship with DD. If there is a choice over which child to spend your time with, at this particular stage spend it with her. Obviously you need to feed DS. Can you express so that DP can feed him and you can have special time with DD? If the evenings are bad, try the mornings? Put him in a sling so you can cook with DD, or whatever she likes. She needs to be reassured that she is still just as important as ever she was to you.

Part of doing this may be to get out of the house every day. The key to this, I think, is not trying to do it by any particular time. It can take a few hours to leave the house with a baby, but just being outside takes the edge off everything and helps DD let off steam as well. If it takes so long to get DS ready that it is lunchtime, stick some food in a bag and tell DD you are going for a picnic. go to the same place every time if that's easiest.

Hope things get better. Remember, everything changes and passes. This may be the hardest period of your life, and you will get through it and so will your lovely DCs.

in a few weeks, once you have recovred more from the birth, take them out. in the pushchair, the car whatever. so you can do stuff the older one wants to do.
i know a lot of people are saying about the preschool,but personally i found that harder because you are constantly clockwatching. if the baby is in th emiddle of a feed at 1150, then you have to stop the feed to go get the older one. iyswim. i have been known to do things like just sit in the car outside the house because dd was asleep and i didnt want to wake her up because she feell asleep on a school run.

three weeks post birth is such a vulnerable time emotionlly; at least it is for me. Your bub having a growth spurt and cluster feeding won't be helping, but it will get better. My DH works away and I was on my own with the two of them four days a week, and then it was the summer hols when DD was six weeks old and I had them both all day. It was tough but we got through it and you will too.

Do you have grandparents or other family nearby? Perhaps a regular day where your DD can go to them for a few hours?

Not much to add to the good advice already given, but just wanted to lend my support too. It IS really hard, and a massive adjustment. I found going from 1 to 2 very hard (the hardest so far, 2 - 4 and 3 - 4 much, much easier). It does get easier. I was incredibly hard on myself as I carried an enormous guilt for DS1 which I wasn't expecting, when DS2 was born.

Babies are pretty basic, once you've got the feeding sorted their needs are largely physical - they need food, sleep, cleaning and cuddles. Its often easier to meet these needs than the emotional demands of an older one. In many ways, your DD needs more attention than the baby.

If you can cosy up for the next few weeks, try not to do too much, aim to go out for a walk once a day, get your shopping delivered, anything to make your life easier. Do you have a DP or any one else who can focus on DD and give her time, take her out for treats, generally make a fuss of her?

And remember, those baby blues kick in with exhaustion - so allow yourself to cry, and give yourself a break.

Sorry, given I didn't have much to add I have gone on! I wish I could help more.

Peggotty,

You are not alone in this. There have already been many wise words on this thread, so I'll try not to repeat them, but just wanted to say, my dd was almost 3 when the dts arrived and she had her moments!

Make things hers, dd has the "Big Sister Box" with all the nappies and wipes etc in which she is in charge of. We let her choose it. We also had a small box of things that were just for when I was busy with the babies. So when I had to spend an hour feeding them, she got to play with the play doh and things she didn't have at any other time so it was a bit special for her.

And even if you're stuck on the sofa for an hour, you can't play with your dd but you can talk to her, sing with her, watch her draw or colour or dance and heap praise on her. Maybe stickers for being a patient girl and helping Mummy when she's feeding. Put her in charge of putting a dvd on for you both or show her how to use the cd player so you can have songs.

I hope things get better for you soon. x

You are three weeks post partum. Please don't be so hard on yourself. I remember feeling the same way about DD (who was 18mo at the time of DS' birth). It's hard, especially in this age/culture when many of us don;t have close familial support on hand.

In retrospect I feel that the irritation I felt at DD was an important part of that animalistic bonding urge with the newborn DS. I think your body takes control of your emotions at this time to counteract the 'logical' response to favour your DD with whom you have a real and established relationship.

I found it helped enormously to get DH (and/or anyone else who offered) to take DD off my hands for an afternoon. I also tried really hard to find time for just DD and me, e.g. while BFing or while DS was napping. Has your DD started preschool yet?

It gradually improved for me. I think I became less tired and hormonal. DD became more used to her little brother. DS grew bigger and less vulnerable to his sister's pinches and eye-poking

Hi what everyone has said is great. I just wanted to add to this all and say that things will get better.

Early summer DS2 was born and DS1 was just 3. It is hard hard work but gets easier. I was hanging onto the thought that from 6 weeks babies get easier then 12 weeks then 6 months etc. Also your DD will get used to her brother. At first it is a big change for all of you including her. In those first few weeks, TV and computers were my friend (for DS1). What everyone has said about getting out of the house as well is great advice.Even if its only for a walk around the block. All the best.

peggotty I'll be in your situation in a couple of months and I am already scared of how I'll be coping. I was quite stressed just with dd I imagine myself behaving exhactly like you and feeling as shit as you for reacting like this.

I have no practical advice as not there yet but I sympatise and understand 100% when you say sometimes you cannot see the light at the end. I think the fact that dh was ill and not helping out has made it worse. I find that everytime my dh is useless (for whatever reason) I get so so stressed and take all the anger on to dd rather than him.

try to take it as easy as you can, leave the baby when possible and maybe go out... normally they are both easier to handle.

If you are anywhere near north london I can come and help!

Just adding my words of support, I know what this is like, my two are just over 2 years apart.

You are not a shit mother. Otherwise you would not be worrying about being a shit mother.

Take any help offered (Granny, Aunt, Friend...)

Online shopping is great

If you are feeling really bad, then get yourself down to your GP. You might be suffering from PND. I was, and the doc prescribed some tablets (hormones of some sort, sorry I do not remember what) and within a few days I was feelign much more human.

Settle yourself down on the couch, read a book to your DD or watch a film with her while you cuddle your two lovely children.

Good luck!

I have a 3 yo and a new born (2 weeks). The only way I am only going to manage this is for ds1 to keep going to nursery. He goes 3 days a week, on the days I usually work and we have kept it up. There is financial support for fees so you might want to seriously consider it as an option. When I feel the mummy guilt coming on I remind myself that ds1 needs the social contact, stimulation etc that simply isn't on offer when mummy is trying to manage a newborn and a toddler!!

Lots of good advice... I have ds1 who is 2 on Sat and ds2 who is 4 months and I REALLY struggled in the early days too. It DOES get easier - especially at about 12 weeks when the lo learns to communicate in ways other than melt downs.

Second the taking all the help you can get and letting your standards slip (OK plummet )

The best thing for me was my hugabub wrap sling that ds2 could sleep in and I could play with ds1 as it was totally hands free. Then I didn't feel as though I was leaving him to scream when I needed to spend some time with ds1.

Also a battery powered mobile so ds2 would stay happily in his cot while I got ds1 up and dressed and had a shower.

But basically remember that while it is hard it is just a phase and gets better. Have to admit that the thing that made the most difference was ff at 6 weeks.

Got to go - ds2 clamouring for a feed! Gppd luck xxx

mamaduke I want to know the bed time routine please! I might even implement it now before dd2 turns up as we are already struggling.

also please tell me whether dd1 was pro or against dd2 while in the belly.
tia.

Peggotty I remember feeling exactly like that for quite a while when I had ds and dd (19 months apart - not that I think that the age gap necessarily matters) I was really pretty mean to ds at times but he has survived it and we have a good relationship. You are being really hard on yourself - it is really difficult for the first few months but you will come out of it. I resolved to spend some one on one time with ds when I least felt like it, even if just for 20 minutes. It made a huge difference and really turned things around - having said that though, that was more than three weeks in! I never had the support of my mother or any other relative but I did have a cleaner which took the pressure off and dh used to take care of the cooking in the evenings. You'll be ok, don't worry.

Thank you so so much everyone for some great advice - I would love to reply to you all individually but am a bit time-starved at the moment! I live too far away from family for them to help out but my dh is trying his best - there not much fathers can do when you're bf-ing is there? I had some friends round this afternoon and the difference I feel for having a bit of company is amazing. I've resolved to try and get out at some point every day as many have suggested, especially in the afternoon as that's when my dd seems to be at her worst. She does go to a playgroup three mornings a week, which does help but tbh at the moment it's not enough! Cbeebies is on a lot already and has been throughout the pregnancy. I think what has made me feel so bad is that I thought once to baby was born I would stop feeling so irritable with my dd but in actual fact it has got worse. She has already has months of me being a grumpy cow. It just feels like I am not an separate entity from my children iykwim, I either have a baby attached to my boob or my dd clinging to me like a limpet. I am not a patient person at the best of times but I am trying so hard to realise that it is a phase and early days etc.

Peggoty Just to add my support/sympathy. it IS a really tough time.

Something that turned a corner for ds and me when dd was born was me making time for him on his own. I would leave dd with dh (or PIL/mum/anyone who'd have him and go to the park with him for 30mins. Got us both some fresh air/something different to do, reminded me why I liked (as well as loved) him.

Like marmaduke I had a 'treats' box for ds which I could dip into whenever I needed - I briefed family (who, like yours don't live locally) to look for small gifts, wrap them up & send them to me. Then when dd wanted a feed and ds didn't want attention, I present would be produced. By the time he'd opened it & figured out what it did, dd would be sorted

Take any help that's offered. If its not offered ask - eg if famiily come to visit, tell them to bring lunch, ask them if they'd do some hoovering/ironing. They will say yes. They will not be offended. Bet you

And sleep, sleep, sleep, Put any household tasks on a 'low priority list. If you are all dressed & have eaten something, you have had a successful day

And, as other people have said, find creative ways to involve her. I know, creative ain't where you're at right now, but look at what she is interested in with your baby. For eg ds ADORED the fact that dd did yellow poo "look mummy, poo like the sun!" SO, whenever we changed nappies we would discuss excitedly how yellow the poo might be. Someone wise said to me that toddlers/preschoolers don't find babies loveable, but they do find them interesting - we found we could really use that....

Good luck - it WILL get better

I am reading this thread with a certain amount of awe, because I have a ds who is 3 and very demanding (as all 3 yr olds are) and I would like to have another dc (ttc right now) but I am very worried about how I will cope with 2. I think that it sounds like you are doing an admirable job trying to deal with 2 very different sets of demands from a toddler and a newborn and I imagine that most parents with similar situations go through much the same as you describe - and btw even without a pregnanct and a new baby I am sometimes very grumpy with ds, because 3 year olds are very hard work at times - so you should not feel that you are unusual for that or that it is all about hormones!

Also, I am tempted to print out this thread so that I can keep it in case I do manage to conceive soon as I think that the other MNers have given some very good advice!

well not right now - would that be a first ttc whilst simultaneously posting on MN?