2.5 year old HATES HATES HATES other children

[Seasonofthewitch83]

DD is 2.5 and an only child. She has been at the same nursery since she was 1.

As a younger toddler she was very outgoing, loved running up to other children at the park, but as she got older she became noticeably warier of them, didn't like it if another child came up behind her to use the slide etc.

She went through a little stage of not wanting to go anywhere where there would be children. We would get to a playground and she started screaming 'no' and cry and want to be picked up. I would walk her around in my arms to settle her, but she would only be happy when we left.

She has never been an outgoing toddler really, little spurts of it maybe. She isnt the toddler throwing herself around at softplay. She is observant, wary and always watching what other children are doing. Nursery say the same - she is never the first to run up to an activity - she stands back and observes before deciding if she wants to join in. If too many children crowd her she walks off and does something else.

It just seems to be escalating though. We did swimming weekly and she loved it but then all of a sudden, as soon as another child made a noise she would get really upset and want to leave. Same thing happened with baby ballet class. And softplay. and playground.

I spoke to the nursery as they said they had noted she was becoming distressed in particular by children crying or screaming loudly and they take her into a quiet sensory room now when she gets overwhelmed. She has a strong attachment to another child in class and a few little 'friends' and overall is very happy at nursery apart from the noise overload.

I am just becoming quite overwhelmed with knowing what to do to help her. I have asked for an appointment for her ears to be checked in case its a sensitivity thing with noise. I stopped all activities and let her relax at home on a Saturday and take her to the park really early for a runaround so she doesn't get upset and scared by other children. But its SO limiting, I couldn't even go shopping with her as there was a screeching child in a shop and became inconsolable. Other times she just looks like she's almost disassociated - she blanks out.

What do I do to help her here?

Hi, have you considered sensory processing disorder at all? Does she have any other sensitivities? How about trying using ear defenders to block out some of the noise?

Try some toddler ear defenders. She obviously has sensory issues. I'd also suggest speaking to your gp and hv

I think you might want to talk with your GP about sensory issues. Sensitivity to noise can be tricky, Flare ear buds are good for slightly older children but ear defenders are easier for younger children. My DD has noise sensory issues (being assessed for ASD).

The nursery sound as though they're responding well to what your DD needs though, which is positive.

It doesn't sound like she hates children, it sounds like she gets overwhelmed with crowds and lots of noise, suggesting sensory issues. Have you considered getting her assessed?

Thanks all. Can noise sensitivity/processing disorder peak and ebb? Back in the Autumn we went to a sing session at the library which was very loud and she LOVED it, just not the children who came too close. I tried the class again last week and she hid under my coat.

It specifically only seems to be childrens noise that bothers her.

Thank you - HV wasnt concerned when we saw her last.

She is fine in busy crowds e.g train stations, markets etc. A loud TV doesn't bother her. She sometimes gets cross if my husband I are talking and she's trying to concentrate on something, almost like she can only focus on one noise at a time?
A room full of busy adults in a restaurant and she is fine, but as soon as she sees or hears a child she completely changes. If the child noise gets louder, then she will want to leave. If a quiet child approaches her in an empty playground, she will hide and want to leave.

Just a thought, have you heard of the book 'Highly sensitive child'? My son is similar and the book really helped me.

I have heard of it, you have prompted me to go and buy it....thank you!

I've sensory issues and I'm fine in crowds , with music , the TV etc but fire alarms and high pitched screaming are like an assault on my brain. They make me so agitated. So yes it can be totally situational. I also struggle more if I'm tired, sick or stresses. It's like a bucket and the more that's in my bucket , the easier it is for the bucket to over flow.

Thats so interesting - thank you. Thinking more deeply, I know my husband gets really agitated by certain noises, which is very dependant on his mood....

I'm autistic and I'm very sensitive to certain noises but not others. It's taken me a long time to work this out clearly. Barking dogs really get to me and I noticed I feel on edge when there are dogs around. A friend commented that she didn't know I was afraid of dogs and I pointed out that I wasn't but didn't like unpredictable barking.

I also looked after an autistic child who was very noise sensitive. He struggled greatly with other children especially babies. This did not improve but became worse - a bit like how you describe your daughter. For him also it was the unpredictability of when this might occur. Every time it did occur it reinforced to him that it was a possibility and this made it harder to attend groups we had previously attended.

Something that helped us was talking to him about his sensitivity to the noise, the reasons why babies cry, wearing ear defenders, and knowing that he always had the option to move away from the baby/child making loud noises.

In regards to your other point about your daughter only being able to listen to one sound, I am the same. It is impossible for me to block out other noises if I need to attend to something.

Thank you - I think this is the issue - she associates children with a sound that makes her uncomfortable so before they even make a noise, she is tense.

DD does not show any other autistic markers but we do have neurodiversity the family, so I know other behaviors may present themselves as she grows.

Did using ear defenders hinder speech at all?

Ear defenders helped a lot but I think the thing that really helped the most was knowing he would be able to leave the situation if needed.

We went to a music group which was full of younger children but he adored it. I worked out that there were two children in particular whose cries he could not stand. What we would do at home is talk about why the children were crying or what could make them cry. When we arrived at the group we would then look for these children and sit far away from them and preferably near an exit. I would then also comment on the children a little bit through the session so that they didn't seem so unpredictable to him. This obviously takes a lot of work and can't be applied to every situation but it helped him feel like he had some control over the environment.

Ear defenders had no negative impact on his speech but helped him greatly to enter environments he would otherwise be overwhelmed with.

As an aside, I have just been diagnosed as autistic at the age of 35. I only truly began to have my suspicions in the last few years, despite working with autistic children for over 10 years. It might be worth reading up about female autism and the way it presents. School (and many other areas) of my life wold have been so much better if my needs had been understood earlier.

Have a look at misphonia

www.childrenshospital.org/conditions/misophonia

and hyperacusis

www.childrenshospital.org/conditions/hyperacusis

And see if either of them resonate. Either way I think its worth getting her screened by a specialist pediatric audiologist as hypersensitivity to sound can be a symptom of hearing loss weirdly enough. I think its because the person can hear less so some of the sounds that cut through are proportionally much louder.

Sounds like me as a child. Im autistic and triggered by noise. My DS is also autistic and finds being around small children very overwhelming, as they make a lot of sudden noises.

His HV also had 'no concerns' at two. But here he is at eight with diagnoses of ASD, ADHD, ARFID. SPD, global development delay fine motor delay, learning disability and speech and language delay. Attending special school. Mainstream would never have worked.

So IMO health visitors can be very hit and miss.

Thank you! This has also been suggested to me this week by someone whose daughter had the same issue.

How frustrating! Did you ever have concerns or inklings? Its really hard not to catastrophise and label what could be normal toddler behaviour, but I do feel like people gas light me when they tell me she is fine.

That's exactly what they DID to with me @Seasonofthewitch83 - gaslighting is the appropriate term. I was the only one who dared to use The A Word, although we thankfully had a very direct paediatrician who left my husband in no doubt. Until it's in black and white in front of their faces everybody will tell you there's nothing 'wrong'.

My son acted very similarly at that age around other children. It was a phase for him - he needed to get used to other children. He is now 3.5 and happy at nursery with other children and we don't have problems going out and about- although does still prefer quieter children and is scared of handdryers. I suppose we could find out he is autistic later but he's not delayed in milestones and ahead in communication.

My son was very much like this. If a child madena noise he would start crying and become hysterical. He struggled to mix with other children and preferred adult company. Looking through his nursery notes I suspect they considered autism but nothing was ever said. We took him to the doctors and they checked his hearing. No one ever found a 'problem'. We just kept taking him places with ither children, and he eventually grew out of it. He is 13 noe and very socially confident. Still probably has a slight preference for a calmer environment but nothing that causes an issue.

How many days at week has she been going to nursery ? Maybe cut her days down she could just need some quiet time must be full on with loads of kids all having tantrums etc

13 year old DD is being assessed for autism at the moment, many of the little social things I brushed off as being an only child when young and as in isolation they were in the realms of normal sort of noticed them but brushed them off, but the noise sensitivity is something that always stood out. She doesn't mind things that are supposed to be loud like the cinema or theatre but hates a cacophony or unpredictable noises. She's prefers adults to other children.

Cognitively DD is a high achiever and was ahead in most milestones and never behind and never regressed.

I remember her first parents evening in reception because my nose was most out of joint when they told me my PFB didn't interact with the toys or other children but just observed them (she had been fine at playgroup etc) or when her year 2 teacher rang and said she would not write at length in creative writing despite having the ability to. DD will tell you now that she doesn't see the point in making up stories, or analysing texts and writing about what the author meant 300 years ago. Maths and computer science where everything always means what it's meant to she loves. She gets "all peopled out" quickly too.

So I would keep a record of any little quirks as she may or may not have autism or another ND but having a record of it will help in the future if you need it.

If you can afford to see an occupational therapist so that her sensory needs can be assessed then that could be a good starting point. It costs around £450 in my area to have a really detailed assessment (my DD’s took around 6 hrs over a couple of sessions)

This was massively helpful as it meant that school had to give sensory and movement breaks.

My DD did go on to be diagnosed with autism, but not until she was 9 as she has relatively good social skills - good eye contact, lots of facial expression, asks questions etc - and seems very confident in some social situations . There were no concerns at nursery age, or in school for the first few years - although she was a “very sensitive” baby/toddler/child at home.

She can tolerate some noisy environments but not others, or cope with one on one occasion but not on another, it’s variable depending on the activity and what else is going on for her on that day.

You said your DD doesn’t have any other markers for autism - the difficulties need to exist across three areas. Social and communication, and sensory are two of them, which you already have signs of.

The third is - and someone else can probably explain this much better - repetitive behaviours/special interests.

This can be harder to spot in girls. My DD collects soft toys - didn’t really stand out in a younger child of course ! - and has always had a tv series on the go that she watches again and again, where she knows everything about the characters and mentions them a lot. Which can be usual, again, but there is something unusual about the level of it and degree of knowledge/obsession, if you are watching for it.

She also doesn’t flap - but she does cartwheel repetitively and stand on her head, something else that blended in and didn’t stand out as unusual for a long time - she also clicks her fingers when stressed, I hadn’t noticed really, it’s hard to see things when you are so close up.

I didn’t notice or put this together until she was 8 and it became clear that there was something wrong - and still, it seemed to present as a mental health problem, I brushed it aside when a paediatrician first asked me if I thought she was autistic and gave a confident “no, she has no special interests”.

I am telling you this just because the pathway to diagnosis is years long in some areas. If you have your DD put on and she isn’t autistic then this might become clear before an assessment date comes, you could take her off the list. You have nothing to lose there.

But if your DD is, it’s likely that any difficulties will have become more obvious by then.

I desperately wish someone had raised this as a possibility so much sooner for us. It would have saved so much heartache and confusion later on, when no-one knew what was happening, we were being fast tracked to CAMHS - due to risk to herself - and I had an 8 year old child who was suddenly in crisis.

And the signs were there from early on, and would have been visible someone who had known what they were looking for - if I’d spent time around other parents with autistic girls then I think I’d have recognised it so much earlier, or the other parents would.

Immediately I though sensory processing and/ or autism are a possibility.

It's not always the noise but rather people are coming up behind her and she doesn't know their intention.

My ds is autistic and does with the noise at galas better then I do (I'm NT).

But unpredictable places freak him out