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Original poster

My 18 year old DD has no empathy

86 replies

Lou197 · 26/01/2023 20:15

My DD has always struggled with friendships and is now in her first year of uni.

I was hoping this was going to be a new start for her but same patterns seems to be happening. Has a small group of friends but struggles and is often excluded from groups etc. I know that she does not help herself, she is very rigid, sees things in black and white and can be hard work - she is certainly not easy going!

She was very upset yesterday as they were in a lecture and told to get into groups for a term task. She was excluded from all the groups even though she considers herself to be friends with her classmates and they have all been out together for nights out. She told me there was one boy left who is often off uni as he has a problem with his leg and is currently at home or hospital. She could work with him but she did not want to as he is never there. I said maybe he is also struggling that it could be good to support each other but she said she did not want to be doing all the work on her own and him then taking credit. The other groups have said she is being unkind to him (and I agree) but she is adamant she would rather be on her own.

This just seems very cold and selfish to me and if I am thinking that as her mother I am sure others are thinking the same. I worry how she will get on in life and wonder if she is on the autisum spectrum and if so how I can help her.

In all other respects she works very hard, is very focused, can be good company and gets on well with older people rather than her peers.

Any advice??

OP posts:
SignOnTheWindow · 26/01/2023 22:04

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 26/01/2023 20:40

I can't offer an opinion on neurodiversity, but I'd be pissed off too if my mates were all excluding me and I was expected to do a joint project with someone who is likely to be absent a significant amount.

If her 'mates' think it's so mean to exclude him why the hell aren't they including him in their groups? Why is it OK for them to not want to work with him but not for her to not want to?
And why is it OK for them to exclude her?

They sound like a load of arseholes to me.

Exactly! Your daughter's feelings about this are utterly justified. I admire her for standing her ground.

SignOnTheWindow · 26/01/2023 22:10

Lou197 · 26/01/2023 21:09

Totally agree that on the whole teenage girls can be horrible! There was a number limit on each group but the teacher said she should just join one anyway but they would not let her as they said all roles for the project had been allocated. She is really hurt and I don't know why they have acted like that. She is going to have to another meeting with the teacher.

Because they are nasty, shitty little bullies. They're the ones lacking in empathy.

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 22:16

Absolutely bowled over by all the support on here - thanks so much, just shows that there are really lovely understanding people around xx

OP posts:

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18 years old Families General parenting
ThomasinaLivesHere · 26/01/2023 22:19

You describe traits which could be autism but on the actual situation you describe I think most people would be pissed off too.

I don’t get the group set up which has allowed people to be excluded. The teacher sounds at fault. I also don’t get how she lacks empathy for not wanting to be doing a project on her own basically as the other person will be absent. No one else is including the absent person.

Winniepoo · 26/01/2023 22:22

Whether she's ND or not I feel sorry for the girl that everyone including her mum is trying to convince her to work on a project with this lad when she's clearly said she doesn't want to. It doesn't matter what her reason is or how the lad/classmates feel about it, if she's not comfortable working with him that should be accepted 🤷

DigitalTranny · 26/01/2023 22:22

I don’t understand you lot…so if somebody is not a confident social butterfly with tons of friends then the person is immediately labelled autistic?
Maybe they are just socially awkward but it doesn’t mean they are autistic. A lot of people struggle with building and maintaining friendships for a myriad of reasons.
For example being rigid is not necessarily a sign of autism, maybe the person just has a low tolerance level for bullshit, unfair criticism or being mistreated.
Some people are just plain misfits, they don’t follow or think like the masses. They have different ideas and expectations from others in their group. It is difficult for misfits to find an ally who understands them.

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 22:24

DigitalTranny · 26/01/2023 22:22

I don’t understand you lot…so if somebody is not a confident social butterfly with tons of friends then the person is immediately labelled autistic?
Maybe they are just socially awkward but it doesn’t mean they are autistic. A lot of people struggle with building and maintaining friendships for a myriad of reasons.
For example being rigid is not necessarily a sign of autism, maybe the person just has a low tolerance level for bullshit, unfair criticism or being mistreated.
Some people are just plain misfits, they don’t follow or think like the masses. They have different ideas and expectations from others in their group. It is difficult for misfits to find an ally who understands them.

That’s why we are recommending an assessment by a qualified psychologist. There are enough signs to warrant further investigation.

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 22:26

Winniepoo, the only reason I thought she should work with the boy was that the project is huge and I thought she might struggle working on her own, it might be better working in a pair even if remotely than on her own. She is going to make sure that the teacher is aware and happy with her choice of topic so she can work on her own.

OP posts:
DigitalTranny · 26/01/2023 22:29

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 22:24

That’s why we are recommending an assessment by a qualified psychologist. There are enough signs to warrant further investigation.

Show quote history

What signs? I don’t see any. I see a bunch of mean girls who excluded one of their peers and then called her selfish for not wanting to work with a boy who is almost never there. Then her mum writes a post about her and how she lacks empathy..I’m totally baffled!

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 22:29

Totally agree Digitaltranny but my DD is the one who is unhappy and questioning why this kind of thing keeps happening to her. Luckily she is really resiliant and a fighter, she stands up for herself but I worry that she will run low on resiliance and that will impact her MH.

OP posts:
LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 26/01/2023 22:30

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 26/01/2023 20:40

I can't offer an opinion on neurodiversity, but I'd be pissed off too if my mates were all excluding me and I was expected to do a joint project with someone who is likely to be absent a significant amount.

If her 'mates' think it's so mean to exclude him why the hell aren't they including him in their groups? Why is it OK for them to not want to work with him but not for her to not want to?
And why is it OK for them to exclude her?

They sound like a load of arseholes to me.

I agree with this! I don’t actually think she’s being unkind.

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 22:36

DigitalTranny · 26/01/2023 22:29

What signs? I don’t see any. I see a bunch of mean girls who excluded one of their peers and then called her selfish for not wanting to work with a boy who is almost never there. Then her mum writes a post about her and how she lacks empathy..I’m totally baffled!

Show quote history

I listed the ones I saw in my first post.

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 22:37

Digital

If you lived with someone on the spectrum you'd see the signs in the ops post - in large neon lettering !

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 22:39

Similar things happened to my boy throughout school and college then uni - he was incredibly stoic about it all . Stoicism is another trait . It was me that got upset for him but girls do present differently to boys on the spectrum and are more self aware , which is often why they learn to mask it .

Legotiger · 26/01/2023 22:41

Gosh, lots of jumping to the autism conclusion on here! She may well be, or she may just know her own mind and find her classmates immature and rude. As others have said, I admire her for wanting to work alone, rather than be paired up with the guy who’s never there. It can’t be nice for her but she’s taken control of the situation the best way she can following being rejected. That’s a good thing.

I wonder if everyone would have said a male student was automatically autistic in this situation? A female not bending to the will of social convention (ie help out the poor lad with the leg) is treated and judged much more harshly than a male.

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 22:41

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 22:37

Digital

If you lived with someone on the spectrum you'd see the signs in the ops post - in large neon lettering !

Exactly, especially since I also have an 18yo DD that has been diagnosed with ASD less than a year ago and she’s very like the OPs DD.

NocturnalClocks · 26/01/2023 22:42

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 26/01/2023 20:24

She sounds ASD to me. Ticks all the boxes. Lack of empathy can be one of the many symptoms.

Uuugh, this again? Autistic people are no more likely to lack empathy than NT people. In fact, research suggests the opposite.

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 22:45

I wonder if everyone would have said a male student was automatically autistic in this situation? A female not bending to the will of social convention (ie help out the poor lad with the leg) is treated and judged much more harshly than a male.

@Legotiger I’m baffled that you think suggesting ASD is a harsh treatment and judgement of this young woman, and furthermore harsher than what a male student would receive? Excuse me but the only one categorising ASD as something negative and even worse than being judged as “selfish” is you.

Do you really think people with ASD are so despicable as to be worse than selfish people? Do you really think we are all sexists for suggesting ASD? I think your head needs a wobble.

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 22:48

Yes the empathy things is a red herring - my son is incredibly empathetic.

But he still had similar experiences to the ops dd .
Sometimes I think in his teens he "learned" to seem more emotionally switched on than he felt - so he learned that saying sorry was a way to make amends but I do t always think he actually felt it or knew what he was sorry for .
As he's got older he definitely shows real empathy. He's totally non judgmental, he has Aspergers (he was diagnosed when Aspergers was still a diagnosis) so he was above average IQ but lacked emotional maturity. As with most things he operated at around 2/3 of his chronological age but now as an adult in his 30s he is fully caught up .

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 22:55

Op also remember this is probably not an "empathy" issue- it's logic . And logically she is right .
People on the spectrum often say as they see . I certainly do . My son does . Speaking the truth in the way she had isn't socially "polite" but it doesn't make her wrong !

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 22:58

It is true though that many with ASD are perceived as lacking empathy because they miss cues and/or struggle with how to show their empathy. That is usually what people mean when they say a person “lacks empathy”..they are going by what they observe and perceive. That’s completely different from the ability to feel empathy.

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 22:59

hellobe - yes logically she is right, but in saying she does not want to partner up with the boy she might be upsetting him and hurting his feelings and he is in and out of hospital, life must be difficult for him too.

OP posts:
hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 23:04

Lou197 · 26/01/2023 22:59

hellobe - yes logically she is right, but in saying she does not want to partner up with the boy she might be upsetting him and hurting his feelings and he is in and out of hospital, life must be difficult for him too.

I get that but she is also absolutely right in that partnering him would leave her disadvantaged. What should be happening is that everyone is included into a group ! Not leaving two "outcasts" out of the group setting . So she's right . I'm sure it's as hurtful for the boy as it is for your girl but them partnering up isn't the answer.

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 23:05

I'd speak to learning support- diagnosis or not . They both need to be included into a group not left floundering on the periphery.

Summerfun54321 · 26/01/2023 23:13

I feel frustrated for your DD in this scenario. She was excluded and paired with someone who won't give her group work a good grade and she is the one who's been unkind!? It isn't her job to be a charity case any more than anyone else. As a parent all you can do is listen, say "gosh that sounds really difficult I hope you're ok" and that is it. Stop trying to change or fix your DD, just listen to her and empathise with her. She's an adult now who needs your support, she doesn't need to be told what to do or how to behave or that she's wrong.