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Original poster

My 18 year old DD has no empathy

86 replies

Lou197 · 26/01/2023 20:15

My DD has always struggled with friendships and is now in her first year of uni.

I was hoping this was going to be a new start for her but same patterns seems to be happening. Has a small group of friends but struggles and is often excluded from groups etc. I know that she does not help herself, she is very rigid, sees things in black and white and can be hard work - she is certainly not easy going!

She was very upset yesterday as they were in a lecture and told to get into groups for a term task. She was excluded from all the groups even though she considers herself to be friends with her classmates and they have all been out together for nights out. She told me there was one boy left who is often off uni as he has a problem with his leg and is currently at home or hospital. She could work with him but she did not want to as he is never there. I said maybe he is also struggling that it could be good to support each other but she said she did not want to be doing all the work on her own and him then taking credit. The other groups have said she is being unkind to him (and I agree) but she is adamant she would rather be on her own.

This just seems very cold and selfish to me and if I am thinking that as her mother I am sure others are thinking the same. I worry how she will get on in life and wonder if she is on the autisum spectrum and if so how I can help her.

In all other respects she works very hard, is very focused, can be good company and gets on well with older people rather than her peers.

Any advice??

OP posts:
Tescoland · 26/01/2023 21:02

Why was your daughter excluded from all the groups? Is it because the groups have a number limit? If not, they are the selfish ones and not your daughter.
How is your daughter going to work with that boy if he is in hospital and hardly ever at uni? Surely, if he is hardly ever present there, it would be very complicated to collaborate with him.

Leah5678 · 26/01/2023 21:05

Just to add to what I said earlier I wasn't cold and uncaring as a kid neither is your daughter and I'm not autistic and your daughter isn't necessarily autistic based on this. It's other people who have the problem and are being cliquey assholes

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 21:09

Totally agree that on the whole teenage girls can be horrible! There was a number limit on each group but the teacher said she should just join one anyway but they would not let her as they said all roles for the project had been allocated. She is really hurt and I don't know why they have acted like that. She is going to have to another meeting with the teacher.

OP posts:

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DarkDarkNight · 26/01/2023 21:11

Ok the flip side though, the other groups who excluded both your daughter and the other student think she is being mean? They’re hardly full of empathy themselves.

Nevermindthesquirrels · 26/01/2023 21:15

She's not being mean, you shouldn't agree with that. I don't see lack of empathy, just a realistic view of the situation. She definitely sounds autistic, especially if this is a common theme in her life.
It's a bit weird this is the conclusion you've come to from this situation tbh. Who is she meant to show empathy towards in this situation? She's been bullied into a corner and everyone is trying to force her to work with someone who won't be there. She's not receiving much empathy herself.

Nevermindthesquirrels · 26/01/2023 21:17

Saying that, I would be going up to her now with suggestions of an ASD assessment. She needs some empathy and love. If you are going to offer her an assessment you'll need to do it very carefully. She probably already thinks she's weird enough with these kids leaving her out, she doesn't need her family to give her labels too.

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 21:18

Yes I know, I will be very careful in how I approach it

OP posts:
spidereggs · 26/01/2023 21:20

She's not a young teen though, I'm pleased you are going to look at what's been said and seek help.

It's often said here people are to quick to diagnose or "label" but I fear at 18;she's now an adult and that makes things much harder for you.

There is also an element around this style of teaching, as others have said, leave two out, criticising one.

Sounds like there is a lot going on for her.

MaverickGooseGoose · 26/01/2023 21:23

Sounds like me and I'm 45 waiting for an asd assessment

parietal · 26/01/2023 21:23

there are certainly some indicators of autism. but that is NOT the same as 'lacking empathy'.

empathy means sharing other people's emotions & understanding those emotions. plenty of autistic people have good empathy, and plenty of people without autism have bad empathy.

it sounds like your DD is finding communication and social interaction difficult, and engages in black-and-white thinking. those are both linked to autism.

She might like to read books / watch movies about neurodiversity and look into getting a diagnosis (which can be very slow).

ProperVexed · 26/01/2023 21:23

Trying not to hijack....but my DS is similar. How does one get an ASD assessment?

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 21:27

My younger DD has a type of ASD such that the psychologist wrote in his assessment that she is to be excused from all group projects at Uni level for exactly the same sort of reasons your DD is running into. She’s 18 and in Yr 13, but the Uni will have to tell her professors to either not run group projects or to do collaborative projects instead where each student is directly assigned their discrete portion of work. She’s very bright, hard working, capable, has awesome ND friends that “get” her…but she still needs accommodation because doing class work the NT way doesn’t work for her.

Gh12345 · 26/01/2023 21:29

I don’t think it’s no empathy, I think just teenagers only think of themselves. She’ll grow out of it

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 21:32

ProperVexed · 26/01/2023 21:23

Trying not to hijack....but my DS is similar. How does one get an ASD assessment?

I was fobbed off for four years, then the pandemic for 2yrs, so ended up going private for my younger DD right after her 18th birthday. I found a local educational psychologist who specialises in ASD through the National Autistic Society webpage.

Older DD has a much less obvious form of ASD as is very good socially and a social butterfly..we missed it entirely and she was surprise diagnosed at Uni by the Uni SEN team when they tested her to reconfirm her dyslexia for DSA.

Onnabugeisha · 26/01/2023 21:34

parietal · 26/01/2023 21:23

there are certainly some indicators of autism. but that is NOT the same as 'lacking empathy'.

empathy means sharing other people's emotions & understanding those emotions. plenty of autistic people have good empathy, and plenty of people without autism have bad empathy.

it sounds like your DD is finding communication and social interaction difficult, and engages in black-and-white thinking. those are both linked to autism.

She might like to read books / watch movies about neurodiversity and look into getting a diagnosis (which can be very slow).

Yeah it’s not really lacking empathy but struggling to read emotions on people’s faces and in their body language and tone of voice. So it comes across as lacking empathy, when it’s just a failure to notice cues. Once they’re made aware of whatever is going on, they do feel empathy but may then struggle with how to show it in a socially acceptable way.

ProperVexed · 26/01/2023 21:39

@Onnabugeisha Many thanks.

Climbles · 26/01/2023 21:40

Autistic people don’t lack empathy. They may struggle to pick up on social cues and/or respond to them typically, which can look like a lack of empathy. Most people would work with the boy out of social obligation and fear of their peers opinions whether they resented it or not.

Knickerthief1 · 26/01/2023 21:41

Sorry but your daughter sounds very much like my autistic daughter - and unfortunately she is obstinate, stubborn and always right. Good luck with trying to get her to take your views on board. I feel your pain :)

Jellycats4life · 26/01/2023 21:41

OP - your daughter may or may not be more amenable to the possibility of autism if she took a couple of online screening tests. They’re not diagnostic, they just help give people a bit of guidance as to whether an autism assessment might be the right choice or not.

Here’s two:

embrace-autism.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/
embrace-autism.com/raads-r/

There are several more on this site if you want to cover all bases!

Pegsmum · 26/01/2023 21:41

You could contact the Inclusion team/student support at the university and just talk through your worries. Even though she’s in HE your input is still welcomed.

Draincover · 26/01/2023 21:43

Empathy can be learned the hard way. I was pretty selfish until my early twenties. Not that I would have thought that back then. Sadly shock and trauma can sometimes teach it. Kids!

Original poster
Lou197 · 26/01/2023 21:44

Thank you Knickerthief and Pegsmum, I had already googled the number, she is dyslexic so already had some dealings with student support...

OP posts:
Thesystemonlydreamsintotaldarkness · 26/01/2023 21:46

I can kind of see her point to be honest!

hellobethyname · 26/01/2023 21:50

This is why it's a good idea to get a diagnosis early - accepting a different point of view is very hard for someone on the spectrum at this age .

My son was diagnosed at 7 and is over 30 now but just accepts this part of himself and knows why he is as he is. It's just a fact to
Him , and he is able to tell people if they do t get him why that is .

I would try to talk to her about assessment but I think if she is rigid in her thinking and doesn't now accept there is an issue you may have a struggle to explain it to her - I have adult friends in the spectrum who simply get defensive when their differences are laid bare .

rogueone · 26/01/2023 22:00

My DD is the same and I had queried Asperger’s. Friendship groups are shallow and throughout school found it easy to cut people off and move on. Very rigid around expectations and will happily dump the new bf if she perceives any slight which could be him not respond to a message in a timely fashion. She cones across as entitled and demanding but you scratch the surface and she has quite crippling anxiety. Girls are good at masking too. My DD hasn’t really made friends in her course. She doesn’t really go out at uni as she sees it as education and would rather come home to
go out. So hangs out in her flat block. Getting an autism a diagnosis isn’t going to change who she is as it’s a condition. It just means you will better understand her and she can get support at uni if she wants it.

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