Talk to me about toddler sleep. Where are we going wrong?

[HappinessAlley]

We have a 21 month old DD. Getting to sleep has been a problem for a while (although staying asleep not a problem). Our daily sleep schedule goes something like this (this was yesterday)

7.30 DD wakes up
1.30 - 2.30 afternoon nap (struggles to just go down to bed, but often some tears or a walk in the pram)
6.30 dinner
7.00 play, bath (every other night)
7.30 into bedroom, pyjamas, book, milk, stories
8.00 put in bed, then tears, “NO!!”, more stories, try again, tears, no.
8.45 tantrum continuing, try story again
9.00 carry to dd to bed, story, tears
9.30 falls asleep after exhausting herself

honestly, the bit from 8 to 9.30 is a real pain, and exhausting. She fights going to bed on her own.

We tell her we love her, tomorrow is a new day. Otherwise she’s a cheerful girl but sleep is a real problem.

Where are we going wrong? Is it just a phase that happens to toddlers. All the advice about creating a routine, that’s what we’ve done from 6.30 to 8.00.

any advice gratefully received.

She maybe going to bed too early or she is ready or getting ready to drop her nap. Her morning wake period is 6 hours and your trying to get her to sleep after 5.5 hours in the afternoon. Afternoon wake period needs to be longer than the morning one.

Is she getting enough exercise?

Maybe she just isn’t ready to go to sleep on her own.

Your evening seems very late and over-tiredness could be the issue. I would move everything in the evening 2 hours earlier and see if that helps.
The nap is quite late too. I would either aim for 11/12ish or drop the nap completely.

I think the issue is giving in to stories. All children want more stories and to learn where the boundary is. You are teaching your dc there is no boundary and crying will get what she wants.

To stop it, You just keep saying no. We literally never ever budge and DD still tries it on sometimes but it never escalates because we gently say, I love you, but now is sleeping time. If you’ve been consistently giving in it’s going to take a while for her to get used to it and she is going to cry, but it’s a boundary and one that it’s your job to enforce. She asks for more stories “story time is over, time for sleeping” rinse and repeat. Then you can either leave and baby gate/lock the door and leave her to it or keep walking her back into bed repeating the same thing but not engaging further.

Most toddlers will try this but how you react determines whether it’s going to become a long standing issue or something you can deal with in a few days/week.

our DC started leaving her room, we tried the walks for several weeks with minimal success and a lot of tears, switched to baby gate and walking away, 20 mins of crying and it didn’t happen again. Another friend has success with the walks, depends on the DC.

I think she's getting enough exercise. She's out twice a day, once to the park and once to a sort of playroom (we live in a residential compound). She's also running a lot in the house.

Definitely think we can be firmer saying no to more stories.

Getting earlier is a little trickier (due to childcare / work arrangements), although we could try and push things back maybe one hour to see if that would help

The timing is due a little due to a clash in expectations over daily schedules between me and DH which I could write a whole post about. As a child (working class), I remember tea used to be about 5pm and bed by 6.30ish. DH (middle class) remembers dinner being more like 7pm. He rarely comes home before 7.30 (work is 20 minutes away and he's a civil servant and no real reason to stay late - gets into office at 9.30am and likes to work late). This affects our evening schedule a little although I don't think it's the major problem.

Overtired and wired by that time, I reckon. She's still very little, try shifting evening routine earlier and don't keep reading more stories, maybe play a lullaby instead as a cue to switch things up and denote a new routine.

We had struggles when he was 16-17 months old, the thing that worked for us was not giving in to taking him out of his cot. Milk before going upstairs, bath, pyjamas, in cot for stories (even if he stands and asks to get out) and then we leave. When we were giving in to him wanting to get out of the cot bedtime was taking forever. Also try to set a limit to how long stories go for, you could say 'ok one last story' and then leave as promised after that. I would also move the map forward by at least 30 minutes if not more. Ours is up at 6am and nap is 11.30-12ish, on good days the nap is 2 hours, then lights out at 7.30-7.40pm.

Also she can have dinner before daddy gets home. Not ideal for family time but if it means you don't have a 2 hours battle for sleep it's worth it, and can do family dinners on weekends.

Ours is up at 6am and nap is 11.30-12ish, on good days the nap is 2 hours, then lights out at 7.30-7.40pm.

On the face of it, our schedule isn't too different, if ours is up at 7.30 (we're shifted 1.5 hours ahead)

Ah sorry I see that she already has dinner before dad comes home.

Although if were DH I’d try and get to work by 8.30 and be home by 6, 6.30 but that’s another story

Good luck, hope it's just a phase, we have had our share of nightmare bedtimes but they seem to last just short periods.

She's overtired and is therefore struggling to settle. She's only getting 11 hours sleep across the 24 hour period. At this age most need 12-14. I would suggest:

Wake 7.30
Nap 12.30 - 2.30 (or even 12-2)
Bedtime 7.30

Also agree with others re stopping offering stories once you've done this once as part of initial bedtime routine, it's confusing for her. If you are going in to help her settle keep lights off, no talking. Good luck!

A story at 730 then NO more stories, then it's tears Then story at 845 and story again at 9pm? So in fact story time is told at 730-9pm with a NO stories and tears in between ?? Am I reading that right? No wonder if I'm confused she must be aswell

Keep bed time a lot shorter - too drawn out

Mine at that age was a half hour pjs, book, milk, cuddles bed

Sounds like she's just got used to the long process which sometime told me once if they ate crying it's still attention and that 2 hour bedtime is now her routine - too young to comprehend the talking of tomorrow is a new day etc

X

As others have said your evening is too late. The vast majority of young children in the Uk have childrens tea around 5 pm . Then bath every other day, story and bed around 7.

She sounds ready to drop a nap too. If you don’t want to do this then wake her after 45 mins.

At this age they need at least 3 hours exercise a day.

The only toddlers I know who go to bed at 7 are either up at 5 or are up at 7 and nolonger napping. I think she needs a later bedtime.

Is she tired when she wakes up? My DS is a little older now but I was always happy with a 7.30 wake up and didn't necessarily fight a later bedtime too much. When DS was 2.5, he had a phase of going to bed at 9pm for a while. Annoying but much less stressful to let him potter around until then than have an argument over bedtime all evening

@olympicsrock only one nap a day already and 21 months is too young to have zero naps

I think it's the giving in once you've put into bed and said goodnight I'd just sit by him hand gently laying on him but say and do nothing after a few nights you should see it getting easier and then move to just sitting next to...may have to pay him down once or twice but don't speak....then once that's cracked start moving a way again over a few days.
At the moment he's rewarded by attention and stories.

My son has always gone to bed at 8pm, mainly because my husband doesn't get home till 7pm some times. He sleeps till 7.30am most days.

I think the issue is all the stories and maybe an earlier nap time, my son napped 12 till 2, sometimes 11.30am depending on what we had done in the morning!

Good luck, sleep is a pain in the bum.

A story at 730 then NO more stories, then it's tears Then story at 845 and story again at 9pm? ... Keep bed time a lot shorter - too drawn out ... Mine at that age was a half hour pjs, book, milk, cuddles bed

Sorry if it's confusing. The point is that we're trying for the 30 minute bedtime routine, but it extends, and because she cries we offer her another story to calm her down, we try to put her in bed, she cries, and it extends far too long. It's not that we want bedtime to be a 2 hour affair.

I don’t think that’s true. It depends on the child. My 19m old only has a nap every 3-4 days - if we’re lucky!

On nursery days they wake at 0730, then off to nursery where they are increasingly not napping during the day. Get home for 1800, then snack, cuddles, bathtime and bed for 1930 latest. They don’t wake during the night.

Non nursery days, we relax the routine, they get up between 0700-0900, we eat when they get hungry, try and nap if they feel tired but increasingly getting refused, bed between 1900-2000.

Ours has never really been a napper, even when little, but would consistently sleep for 10-12hrs a night from 10 weeks. I think it really depends on the child regarding naps.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the nap research shows it helps sleep.children running around bouncing off walls at 8pm are overtired and can't switch off a bit like when we're really exhausted think we will sleep well and then are awake for hours. The problem is the extended attention stories etc.

Why not just do the one story but in bed say good night and then nothing else?