Sleep training/night weaning?

[Helena1993]

Hi. My babies a little over 6 months old and doesn't sleep well at night. She constantly wakes up and I have to put the pacifier back in. She only really drinks 1-2 times a night (4oz each) aside from waking up to be settled.
Should I sleep train? I'm very tired all the time and wish I could be a better, less moody mum.
Is night weaning and sleep training the same thing or do I have to night wean and then sleep train?

I'd ditch the dummy first, and work on self settling instead.

OK I'll try that

No you should never sleep train

your baby is 5 months old and is naturally designed to wake up overnight. She isn’t an alarm clock or robot

I'd only consider night weaning and only once babe is established on solids and getting enough milk intake during the day.

6 months and I disagree with sleep training. I'm losing my mind. She wakes every 2 hrs. I can hardly do anything during the day and I'm depressed

My 13 month old still wakes multiple times a night. It gets easier. They're only little once and they need comfort.
Do you have a partner who can do the mornings whilst you sleep?

I know a lot of people are against sleep training but generations were left to cry it out. As my mum often points out when she criticises me for not putting down my 10 week old, we all turned out ok.

If you watch Call the Midwife they used to line prams up outside in the street while they went back inside to get on with housework. Obviously that sounds dreadful now, but I am starting wonder if we’re too precious these days about letting babies cry for a bit.

Of course there are gentler forms of sleep training that aren’t full on CIO so I’d try those first, but if it saves your sanity I wouldn’t be adverse to trying some sort of training at 6 months.

A mix of shush pat and pick up put down would be the gentlest (only pick up put down if shush pat doesn’t work after 30 seconds of crying), and if that method doesn’t work maybe controlled crying is worth a try.

Hitting children also used to be common practice, as was sending them out to work etc. Plenty of people did not turn out ok at all. I don't think controlled crying is worth a try at all. It does not teach self soothing, it acclimatises babies to accepting abandonment. Who wants that?

First of all, there's no evidence that sleep training harms babies.

There are some techniques you can try before cry it out - hands on settling (shush patting instead of picking up/feeding to sleep) , comfort settling - where you try leaving the room for a few minutes, as long as the cries are going down and not escalating.

Video demos here.

www.childrens.health.qld.gov.au/chq/our-services/community-health-services/ellen-barron-family-centre/responsive-settling/

I was trying to point out that sleep training used to be extreme (ie hardcore CIO) and generations turned out ok, so gentler methods - including controlled crying - won’t actually do any harm or damage your bond etc.

The jury is still out on just how effective it is though - ie they may still wake up but stop waking you up - but worth trying if you’re at your wits end as many have found it a great help.

I am pointing out that previous generations were not necessarily ok though. Many people have silently suffered, or managed difficult feelings with alcohol etc because of attachment issues and inability to deal with emotions. What is a measure of ok ness? I am a therapist and deal with people suffering from intergenerational trauma all the time. I would never, ever even consider any firm of CIO. It is the opposite of the present, consistent care giving I am striving for.

I sleep trained both of my DC at 6 months. Now nearly 3 and 11 months old and both solid sleepers

Sleep training doesn't have to involve lots of crying and there are plenty of gentle methods which although take a bit longer, do help them to self soothe.

I agree with the first poster that you need to decide whether to keep the dummy or not. In 3 or so months they'll be able to put it back in themselves but until then it's a constant wake up to put it back. We ditched the dummy at the same time as sleep training with my first

We used the disappearing chair method with both and there was very little crying, we stayed in the room for the first few nights and it felt like the right approach for us.

Decide on a routine before bed and stick to it: we finished with a song and then put DC into their cot sat with the chair over them and shushed/sang etc. Patted bottom or held hand for 1 minute then took the hand out for 2 minutes (but kept singing/shushing etc). Keep doing it until they are asleep.

Next night the same but only pat when baby gets a bit upset.

Then again but move the chair slightly back and only get up to pat if needed

Then move chair further back

Eventually put baby down with the song and let them go to sleep themselves

For us, both DCs didn't really get too upset and almost instantly slept better

Good luck

8oz overnight sounds like a lot at that age. I have a 5 month old and I've just stopped feeding her at night so she has last bottle at 7pm and next one at 7am but even before that i'd gradually reduced overnight feeds so she was only having a little top up at bedtime - maybe 3oz at 11pm.
She still wakes once or twice a night but I just shush and pat or do pick up put down until she goes back off.

Some of the threads on this post are a bit OTT. Obviously these days we wouldn't leave a crying a baby in the street for hours on end but there's a vast difference between that and 100% attachment that seems to be fashionable now. I have seen the latter cause several women I know to crumble beneath the weight of sleep deprivation. One friend took the full year of mat leave and her baby still was waking every couple of hours when she went back. She ended up completely broken by it.

Ps. Mumsnet hates dummies but I wouldn't be without one for ditching night feeds!

I sympathise. Mine woke every two hours until he was 12 months and it does take a toll. It was just habit for him, and took three days to break the habit when we night weaned at 12 months. Advice varies, but it seems like it's generally not ideal to night wean before 10 months (unless of course your DC naturally night weans themselves).

But if your baby doesn't wake much to actually feed, it seems like that's not your problem. If it was just these one or two milk wakings, would you be able to cope with that? If so, tackle the dummy first! Sounds like that might improve things a lot.

Sympathies- I went through this stage with both mine. That fatigue is like nothing else.

We waited until they were 9 or 10 months, properly established on solids, before cutting out the night feeds. (I wasn't convinced until then they were eating enough to do this, although all the advice says it's fine from 6 months.) We sent in my DP whenever they woke at night and he cuddled them back to sleep.

THEN once they were used to going through the night without a feed, we sleep trained, CC, lasted I think a couple or three nights and then they slept through. (Second was a bit trickier than first who has almost literally slept through every night since!) Everyone happy and well-rested. I am strong advocate of this approach although it's not for everyone.

I wouldn’t ditch the dummy if it’s a quick way to get her back to sleep and besides most babies can replace their own dummy by 6-7 months. They’re rubbish at finding them though so you need loads in the cot- we used to do 10! And you can encourage it by from now on always placing it in her hand and then guiding her hand to her mouth. That stopped all night wakes for us. Night feeds we’d ditched a lot sooner, I don’t think either of mine ever had more than 1 overnight even as newborns! If they eat enough during the day then they shouldn’t need them at 6 months+.

Thanks everyone I'm crying because I can't do this anymore. My thoughts are really dark and I think I'm developing some sort of anxiety disorder. I'm shaking and worrying all the time.
I'm holding off on sleep training because some people say it's harming the baby. And I'd never want that. Ever!!! I wonder what my little one feels looking at my crying face. I think she feels that I'm unhappy.
I want to be a good mum!!! She doesn't wake to eat anymore.
Only to be comforted. Hellppp

Hi OP,
There's no evidence that sleep training harms babies. The studies that claim crying spikes babies cortisol are old and based on long term stresses, not relatively brief bouts of crying.
Your baby needs you to be a functioning mum. There are lots of sleep training methods that don't involve leaving your baby to cry for indefinite periods.
I would suggest waiting until you've night-weaned and ditched the dummy before sleep training though. So if you can hold out for another month or so and work on those things first, that will make sleep training easier when you try it.
We ditched the dummy at about 7 months - it was tough for a couple of days and we gave our baby a lot of extra help during that time to get to sleep. But after that it actually improved her sleep because she wasn't getting upset when she lost her dummy.
If you can afford it, a sleep consultant would be really helpful for holding your hand through the process. There are some good online options that are a bit cheaper.
There is hope! Your baby will learn to sleep, and sleep training will not harm them. Good luck.

You say in your first message that she has two bottles over night? Does she still have milk over night? It’s incredibly normal at this age to need milk over night.

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I'll drop the dummy and night wean first. I'll start today. I'm not sure if I can survive another month of this but I'll try.
Right now we don't have the money for a sleep consultant... 😪

Not anymore. I found out she only needs a dummy and will fuss for a couple minutes and then sleep at some point without crying for food

I'm holding off on sleep training because some people say it's harming the baby

Who are some people and why do they get a say? Not expert healthcare professionals like paediatricians I take it?

Cry based sleep training is usually the quickest- probably one awful night, a pretty bad one, then done. But if that’s not for you there are non cry methods too, they just take longer. See the GP about your anxiety, and then I would do the sleep training because lack of sleep is literal torture. If funds permit you could hire a sleep consultant so you have the reassurance of someone helping you through it too.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out?amp

I really wouldn’t ditch the dummy now. My DS is 7 months and for the last couple
of weeks he replaces his own dummy. You are so close to that now. I put ALOT in his cot, so he can find it. You’ve said she settles after having her dummy, so just encourage her to practice during the day and put lots in her cot.

Sleep training does not mean cry it out. I’ve ‘trained’ all of my kids with no crying. You just need to work on putting them down awake in a dark room, with a good nap routine and good bedtime routine.

Also, I would speak to the GP about how you’re feeling but it’s probably a build up of being exhausted.

hope it improves soon x