Sleep training/night weaning?

[Helena1993]

Hi. My babies a little over 6 months old and doesn't sleep well at night. She constantly wakes up and I have to put the pacifier back in. She only really drinks 1-2 times a night (4oz each) aside from waking up to be settled.
Should I sleep train? I'm very tired all the time and wish I could be a better, less moody mum.
Is night weaning and sleep training the same thing or do I have to night wean and then sleep train?

@Redwood500 but they'll have to ditch it at 12m anyway and the sooner you do it the better! Dummies are great for newborns when they still have the sucking reflex but the ideal time to ditch is around 6m. Baby will get over it in a day or two.

@MolliciousIntent in an ideal world she would have already ditched it but most 6 months old will not get over it in a day or two. Most sleep consultants advise to get rid before 4 months or leave it until they are two. I believe they should only be used for sleeping and not all the time but as the OP has said the baby is waking every 2 hours, so it hasn’t learned to self settle yet and the OP has made it clear she is at breaking point, having dark thoughts and anxiety. I don’t think it’s advisable to attempt to remove the only method of soothing she currently has at the risk of affecting her own mental health.

She also doesn’t need to remove the dummy at 12 months. She can choose to do it when it’s appropriate. Both of my older children happily gave their dummies away at 2 years old with no damage to their teeth or speech.

@Redwood500 and I was put to sleep on my front and survived. Anecdata is not evidence!

@MolliciousIntent you’ve clearly missed the point of this thread and the questions the OP asked.

OP if you're feeling like this please please consider doing sleep training, there's no evidence it harms babies, it can be done quickly if you're consistent and once you've slept a decent chunk your mental health will be completely transformed.

OP, please look into sleep training properly. There is NO evidence it harms babies and a lot of evidence that it works well. I recommend Emily Oster's book. She's an economist who has reviewed all the literature.

I'm going to post some quotes. Maternal depression is a risk factor for attachment and is damaging for babies. As is crashing the car because you can't stay awake.

The supposed evidence about sleep training being bad comes from seriously neglected babies in Romanian orphanages, not from sleep training studies.

The Australian study followed children up to 6 years old and found no difference in attachment, behaviour, intelligence or any other measure between those who had been sleep trained and those who hadn't.

I can't believe people on the internet are more helpful than my own family! Thanks for the info

OP once anyone posts about sleeping training you always get the mumsnetters who think it’s the most evil thing to do and it’ll harm your baby blah blah. Honestly just do what is right for you! You can’t function if you’re feeling the way you are and are always sleep deprived. There are also MANY ways you can sleep train, from gentle methods to the the so called ‘damaging’ cry it out (major eye roll). We personally did cry it out but I went in a bit more often than suggested to soothe. It took a few days but in no way damaged my baby! She now loves going to sleep and is excited to see us in the morning. It hasn’t damaged her development or emotional intelligence. In fact she’s super bright and affectionate. We did training around 7 months and she’s now just over 2, it changed our lives

I've decided I will sleep train. I'm constantly moody and get upset easily. How am I supposed to be a good mum like this? It's impossible. I wanna be able to smile sincerely and have fun with her.
I'll go with the Ferber method and start gently. We'll see how it goes.

She's on a nap schedule that works really well. I only think she has trouble falling asleep on her own. And somehow it doesn't seem to help that I'm always in the room with her at night. Every sound she makes wakes me up.

Is the positive effect of sleep training lasting or do you have to retrain at some point?

I'm not sure about the dummy but I certainly should see someone about my mental health. I hate being a mum so much

What worked for us was cry it out. It took 5 days, was very tough , but even on the first night the number of wakings had reduced. By night 5 DD was sleeping 12 hours a night.

Joy returned to our home! Dd was so much happier and smiley too - babies need their sleep too! For the first time I could actually enjoy her and being a mum! It was profound, wonderful, amazing, the difference to us all.

I'm not saying she never woke up again, but We never had to repeat that process. She woke up if she was ill or in pain or there was actually something wrong. It was manageable.

I recall some issues when she moved to a proper bed and so could get out. But by that age she was old enough to be reasoned with and have stickers or whatever for staying in bed. No crying involved at that point, and it was more in the evening putting her to bed and then her appearing again downstairs that was the problem, rather than night waking.

DD is 7 now and not showing any ill effects from the 5 days of sleep training. We have a great relationship, she is funny, bright, caring and happy.

Good luck!

I think the effects of a permanently sleep deprived unhappy mum like me far outweighs the effects of sleep training a couple days. I'm glad there are people who actually support me in this.

@Helena1993 I’ve only had to retrain maybe twice and that’s because we went on holiday and routine went out the window. But the retraining only took 1 day

Someone sent me this:

psykologernesbrev.dk/english/

Honestly everyone. I have developed severe depression. I cry all day.
Now I'm not sure if I can do the only thing that could save my sanity because I don't wanna hurt my child.
I wonder why I ever had a baby in the first place and that I'm bound to this awful life forever now... I need to see a therapist. But the waiting list is 6 months

See your GP, get a low dose of antidepressants, and then book a weekend away - get your DH to sleep train while you go catch up on sleep.

I know it's really hard to make a decision when your mind is like this. What is your DH saying? Is he on board? Mine had to support and encourage me to do the intervention.

That article doesn't provide good evidence. The objections seem to be mainly theoretical, about how attachment could be affected etc. But the studies that have actually looked at babies who were sleep trained do not show these effects. They actually show the opposite.

Sleeping training won’t cure postnatal depression! Get that sorted first and get someone to help you with the baby so you can sleep and work on yourself.
For me co-sleeping was the best thing I did, more sleep for everyone! No need to sleep train with co-sleeping, but there’s no way I’d be able to let them cry it out.

But chronic sleep deprivation causes depression, so it may be impossible to sort that without sorting the sleep first.

It took medication and sleep training to lift my PND.

Medication on its own is unlikely to help if you're hallucinating and completely dysfunctional from lack of sleep.

Maternal depression is a risk factor for babies. It is in the baby's best interests to have a safe, rested, happy caregiver.

And of course you aware that there are risk factors associated with cosleeping. Some mothers feel there is no way they could expose their child to that risk.

As with many aspects of parenting, there is no course of action which is completely risk free. Each parent has to look at the evidence and weigh up the risks and benefits in their personal situation.

This is incredibly hard to do when you are in the clutches of chronic sleep deprivation and depression. Hyperbole, judgement and misinformation are extremely unhelpful in this situation.

Exactly!!

So I've talked to my DH and he's on board. The critics are only based on theory, not evidence. The studies show that there is no negative effect. The babies don't stop crying because they give up, because they feel neglected. They learn to fall asleep without help.
We managed to night wean the baby so she takes all her calories during the day.

My DH took the baby tonight and let me sleep a solid 9 hrs and I feel like a different person. The difference is day and night. Sleep deprivation is the worst thing that can happen to someone's mental health.

I'm so pleased your DH is onboard and gave you a break

I know when you're in such a state it's easy to overthink things

Often those against sleep training will quote a study by Dr Wendy Hall which is I believe the only gold standard study on sleep training. This found that those babies who had been sleep trained woke just as often as those who hadn't.

However, she said this is exactly what she expected to find as those babies who had been sleep trained were able to put themselves calmly back to sleep without needing help.

This video is of a lecture where she talks through her experiences of sleep problems in children. Skip to about 30 mins in she talks about self soothing and the importance of it.

I share this only because you seem to be reading a lot about potential harm and this is worrying you so I wanted to share what I had read

I also posted upthread the method we used which is gentle and didn't involve very much upset

Good luck Op