My DD has so much attitude, am at my wits ends!

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DD is 12 and half and I am more than fed up of her behaviour/attitude. She is constantly rude and grumpy, usually with her younger brother, answers me back, despite almost daily reminders her room is always a mess and clothes all over the place. She lives purely for her dvds and computer contact with friends, she has absolutley no other interests at all. I have tried beyond belief to involve her in clubs and outside activites but she has always said "no, I don't want to". I think a large part of that is because she is she shy and now I blame myself that she has no interests as I am thinking perhaps I should have made her do things. She has opted out of going on a wks holiday with the sch to cyprus (I thought she wasn't able to go because she wasnt in the sports team) it seems she could go but didnt tell me> I am so sad for her and cross at the same time if that makes sense. I want her to have a great life and experience lots of things and I know she is missing out. She started her periods when she was 10 and is very mature. I know a lot of the attitude thing is hormones but she has such a priviledged life and is just not embracing any of it. She recently went without the computer for a whole week (punishment for back chatting), I have just banned it again (2 days after it was reinstated) (more back chat) and this time I have also confiscasted her ipod and mobile and I am going to make it longer than a week. Just one thing, I am so scared of taking away too much from her in case it effects her in leads her to self harming, or any other terrible thing. What I mean is, I am scared of pushing her over the brink. Does that make sense. Any help, ideas would be SO appreciated.

Poor you - I will let somebody with experience of girls this age answer with constructive advice!

I do sympathise

Oh yikes, not looking forward to this and not speaking from experience (dd is just 7). I'm thinking involvement in some charitable type thing helping other people

The bedroom thing drives me mad too. I ignore all the mess but have told DD1 ( nearly 12) that I will be doing a bedroom inspection at 6 o'clock on a Sunday evening at that moment her room must be tidy. She gets a little extra pocket money if she passes the inspection. I have found that constant nagging does not work but once a week is more reasonable.

As for the activity thing. I there anything you could do together? A fitness class, swimming? She might enjoy some undivided attention from you on a weekly basis. You could then perhaps invite a friend or 2 of hers to join you- this might help the shyness.

She does get time with me and she also sees friends regularly, she lacks confidence more than anything. She started a new sch back in sept and everyone else had started the previous year. She tells me and also the head tells me that she has settled well but she is still not 'getting involved', thats the part I am having trouble with. She has the most wonderful opportunity at this school and is not embracing any of it. Have threatened to take her outof her extremely priviledged enrironment and put her in state sch (really no offence to anyone), even this doesnt encourage her. Its like she is locked in her little world and cant be bothered with anything else.

My DD1 is also 12 and a half, started periods early and looks very mature for her age. Her room is usually a real mess, and she also spends as much time as she can on the computer etc. Whilst she certainly can be rude and grumpy, and fights with her younger sister - she isn't always - but does sometimes go through phases! So I sympathise.

We've been trying to let her be more independent - we've started to let her meet friends in town for shopping for example. She sometimes has friends over for sleepovers - which tends to mean the bedroom gets tidied. If your DD would like to do those things, then maybe you can use them as a carrot. We also have a former au pair who has stayed a family friend - she sometimes comes down for the weekend and takes both girls out cycling or to the cinema - which I think gives them the opportunity to talk about things to someone a bit nearer to their own age. They both also chat to our Nanny (for DS) who is in her mid-20s too.

My mum also generally takes them swimming once a week. If I get the opportunity I'll take the girls out on my own (without DS) either together or individually, and we'll go shopping and then go get a nice cup of coffee at somewhere like Starbucks - which makes them feel a bit more grown up. I think it's important to gradually increase their freedom, and also their responsibilities at this age.. DD1 is also quite good at cooking, so I encourage her to do that, and she does have to load the machine with her washing at the weekend.

Hope this helps.

So what is bothering you most at the moment (aside from the usual sullenness/messiness) is that you're paying a lot for this new school and she won't take advantage of the clubs/activities on offer there?

Could you find out what her friends there are involved in?

Who does she talk to on the computer? Is it friends from her old school - do you think she is missing them?

DD has just moved (a couple of weeks ago), into a new school part way through Year 7, and spends a lot of time on the computer talking to friends from her Primary School, and also those she made during the one term at secondary school before we changed schools. I've encouraged her to stay in touch as I figured it may take a while to make friends at her new school.

Do you think maybe you are trying to make her live the life that you want to live?

I personally think, although I have no experience of this apart from having been a 12 year old girl myself, that I would back well off and then sit down with her and draw up a list of things that we (me and her) would like to achieve in the next year .. as outlandish as you want .. make it a fun girlie thing to do .. come in with a list of stuff you want to do / try .. see if some of the things you could do together? (bungee jump? manicure? etc)

then pop it on the fridge as a reminder

then maybe I'd let her have a sleepover or 2 ... a really fun night with friends from school

the more friends she has the more likely she is to get pulled along with the herd mentality

HTH

Its not even the money we are paying although thats not to say its easy come easy go. She has such a fantastic opportunity at the new school but is treating it like a regular school. She will not partake in any extra activities, not going on the holiday, doesnt want to stay for prep and in ADDITION to all that, she is grumpy, surly, answers back, untidy, not interested in anything unless it involves dvds, chatting on msn to old friends, watching what I call trailer trash (all the rubbish usa so called celebs (paris hilton, lindsey lohan) etc My gripe is all of the above and it really saddens me that my dd is only 12 and should be having a lovely time and from what I can see, she is not (well not according to me at any rate)

She talks MOSTLY to old school friends on the computer. We allowed her to have msn because I know the importance of being able to keep in touch, we all need our friends. As for the school trip thing, yes I am really bothered she is not going. It would provide a good bonding time with the girls and strengthen her new friendships. They have all been so welcoming to her. She has been one one sleepover (new friend) but she has not asked for anyone to come here. When I ask her why, I get the standard response that I get to every questions "I don't know".

but don't you think that's part of the problem ... that you are trying to make her fit in on your agenda and not on her own?

she has been at this school, what? .. 3 months? and the feedback from her and the head is that she's settling

sometimes people just need to find their feet ... her old friendships will gradually fall back as new ones develop and strengthen

I do think the herd mentality is strong in 12 year olds (throughout teens) and she will be pulled in

I know that hormonal teens are the worst but I think you're setting yourself up as the enemy ... you need to step back, well back .. you sound, like all of us, that you have an idea what constitutes a 'happy life' for your child ... think back though .. when you were a teen could your parent ever tell you what to do and you would think 'oh what a good idea'

I think you need to just give her the rope .. she'll make her own rope bridge .. it might be different from the one you envisaged but give her time and she'll sort herself out

(the back-chat and removal of privileges sounds fine enough to me tbh .. and I like the room clean at a point in time idea and am going to instigate this with my 2)

there will be OTHER school trips

would you be happy going away with an established group of friends who had known each other for 16 months when you've been there a few weeks?

I wouldn't and I'm a rather confident adult

I hear what you are saying twiglett and I agree, I really do, but I just can't see if she is so happy with her leot then why is she so dam grumpy and surly with us. If she has all these new friends why isnt she wanting to be with them? I feel like I am not believing her. I am told she is very quiet at school. I guess I just don't want to see her left out if she doesnt make an effort now.

I do know what you're saying .. I am just giving an outside perspectice .. I can imagine how you just want everything to be 'mallory towers' for her .. but she won't miss out in the long run .. you have to let her settle at her own rate .. it takes time to build a circle friends

I just think you can't be the instigator as easily as you could at primary level

You can give her opportunities: pay for a cinema trip for her and a friend, or a meal out or offer a sleepover

Have no experience - except of myself at that age and I know I really did not want to be pushed into things.

I saw a problem page recently about something similar and the agony aunt said try asking the 12-year-old's advice. "I have not been in this situation before, I have a stroppy 12yo who seems unconfident, I want to help but I don't know how - what would help you most and what is your advice for me?" Ask if there's anything she thinks you should be worrying about and where she thinks you should back off. Tell her you will back off if she will be responsible and grown up, but you will always be there is she ever does need to confide in you. Tnen do it - don't be on her back all the time about friendships etc because in a way it could feel like a criticism to her, IYSWIM.

Was she happy about moving schools at that point, or does she resent the change? It sounds like she is being friendly with people at school, but she might be trying to "punish" you by not doing any of the extras you are keen for her to do.

Would/could she have an old friend over for a sleepover? If so, then that might help. If you relax the pressure on her joining in at her new school, then you'll probably find that she'll do it anyway in her own time..

She spends all her spare time either on the computer or in her room. I constantly tell her she should be with us more and interact as a family, this fall on deaf ears. I give her so much, love, attention, friends over, sleepovers, advice on life in general. Just feel like a total failure as far as she is concerned.

She loves her new school and was excited to go there. Says she is very very happy there.

you need to back off .. she's a hormonal teen now and not a little girl ... she is striving for independence

Yes - as a stroppy 12-year-old this would have made me furious and feel like just closing down and not bothering - especially being pressed to spend time with the family. She'll increasingly want to sulk on her own in her room or keep secrets from you - that really is normal.

Oh dear i have a 6yr old who is like that now, stroppy, always winding her older and young brothers up and has a terrible attitude, although apparrently an angel at school. Have you had any feedback from school!! From what i was like as a girl of that age, i would say it's normal and probably justa phase that she will snap out of eventually. I do have a niece who went through the same thing, shes now 13yrs, can still be a little stroppy but has realised that if she wants to go out with mates and be treated as a young adult then she needs to act like it!! Hormones are rife at this age and probably best to try not to get into arguements with them, it's difficult to back off i know because it's a balance between backing off but also keeping control, ther is just some sort of behaviour that has to be dealt with and it is a case of getting the balance right. Good Luck it will get better!! Ps..my niece always ends up here when shes had a ruck with her mum or her dad..9 times out of 10 i send her home with a tail between her legs, make sure that everyone singing the same tune ie (nans, grandads,fathers,aunties n uncles).

Bitcat, sadly we have no family so she has only us therefore I need advice from you guys. What saddens me is that fri=om where I am standing she is wating her time doing nothing. I was quite mean and told her I woulndn't have happy memories of her childhood when I was an old lady because I would just remember the constant battles andno funtimes. She didnt appear bothered. I also told her I telephoned her school head and notified him of her bad attitude, again, she was not bothered.

It does sound a bit like your pushing her a little too hard, just back of slightly and let things happen naturally, i'm sure things will settle down. I was very shy at that age, didn't want to spend time with parents and certainly didn't want brothers and sisters hanging around (i was the eldest of 7). I just wanted to be with friends as they understood me better, well makes sense there all going through the same thing!!

Yes, agree - sounds like you need to let her have her own space. My DDs spend a lot of time in our family room, on the computer, or playing music etc - and we let them get on with it.

You could arrange to do some fun things with DS - like bowling, and issue an open invitation for your DD to join you. If she declines, then say nothing and go without her, and perhaps she'll come next time.

I have absolutely no experience with teenagers, so I don't have much helpful advice to offer. I do wonder though if you could perhaps try to meet her on her territory, try to understand what is going on, and be supportive of her choices. My mother always seemed to disapprove of how I behaved at about that age, which meant that I closed myself off from her more and more, although I really would have liked for her to understand and like me. I really would have liked to get some help in navigating a world which becomes so complex at this age. As I said, this is probably more about me, than about your daughter, so it might not be helpful at all.