Really struggling to cope with my bratty kids

[CoffeeGirl]

I have a 4 year old, 2 year old and a newborn.
My 4yo and 2yo have absolutely no respect for anything I say, neither will ever do what they're told, they just say no and refuse to do it even if it's something they wanted in the first place.
They won't go to bed at night, they just get up constantly so I'm having to put them back in their beds over 10 times in an hour. They get up at 5am and go to bed at 6pm, sometimes they won't even nap. They won't go to bed earlier and if they go to bed later they still wake up at 5am and get up constantly.

They do nothing but fight all day every day, I can't even sit and play with them because they can't even get along for long enough to do that. I'm starting to hate being around them, all day every day is just them fighting and any attempt to separate them doesn't work because they refuse to stay apart from each other. They don't care what I say and any consequences to their actions they don't care about either, if I put them on time out they don't see that as a good enough reason not to do the exact same thing again immediately.

Other people have such nice well behaved kids that actually listen to what they're told.
Why do I have bratty kids? I do the things that others suggest and it literally does nothing.

I'm so fed up, it's making me regret ever becoming a parent. I wish I could just have 24 hours without them screaming and where they do at least one thing I say for once.

Do you have a partner?

Are you consistent in your boundaries and consequences?

Have you taught them, especially the 4 year old, the word 'NO'?

They need to understand very clearly what the word NO means as soon as is humanly possible

I'm sorry but I don't get why you would have three kids if they are such hard work. 2 years apart is so close... It sounds really difficult. All I can think is it will be easier when they are older and can play together

Well to be fair you were always going to find 3 kids under 4 difficult. They are probably reacting to a new baby and may not be behaving as badly as you think, it's just you knackered and probably don't have as much patience so something small becomes bigger. Where is your partner? Do you have any help? Perhaps get them out to a playground so they can burn some energy. I always find mine easier outside. You could also contact your local children's centres/ health visitors for services in your area.

Sorry you've had some snotty and unhelpful responses already, OP. I would just try and pick out the constructive ones and ignore the dross.

It's so hard with multiple kids this young, you sound exhausted and no wonder. I can only say that much of what you're doing - returning them to bed every time they get up, applying consistent consequences when they misbehave - is the right stuff, it just takes a frustratingly long time and total consistency to change behaviour. Bear in mind that they may act like they "don't care" about being told off or removed from a situation, but that doesn't mean it's not having a cumulative effect, if you persevere and make sure it happens every single time. Make sure consequences are logical and age-appropriate - if you use that toy to hurt your brother, I'll have to remove it, etc. They'll get it eventually.

6pm is quite early for bed, it maybe better to try slightly later? But it is challenging having young kids, I have a 3 year old and baby and am constantly exhausted!

if I put them on time out they don't see that as a good enough reason not to do the exact same thing again immediately.

At their ages they don't really have the capability to weigh up fulfilling an impulse with the consequences. They're not being bratty - they're being very young children. They WILL learn with consistencies and appropriate consequences but please don't be so hard on them (or yourself). Try not to see it as bad behaviour but as them being two and four year olds learning how to behave.

If you're sending them to bed at 6pm that could be why they're getting up early?

You just need to keep on being consistent with them, keep saying no, even if it's the 100th time. Keep putting them back to bed, even if it's the 100th time. Remind them of their manners. Implement age appropriate consequences. Model behaviour you would like to see. Do you have any support?

How were they before the new baby? Is it possible they’re playing up for attention? I have a newborn and my 2 year old is definitely pushing boundaries at the moment because she knows that if she starts to do something dangerous I have to put the baby down even if mid feed! Trying to counter it by giving her as much attention as possible when she’s being good to try and stop her thinking that naughtiness is the only way..

@BryceQuinlanTheFirst
Not a very helpful comment, regardless of why I have 3 kids, I do so there's nothing that can be done about that now.

My third pregnancy was unplanned, and if I'd have aborted my husband would've left me so I had to continue with the pregnancy regardless of how I felt, despite me already getting next to no help with the other two children.

2yo and 4yo are 18 months apart and that is hard enough without a newborn.

That’s such a hard stage. It will get better, I promise!

The key is relentless positivity - constantly picking up on the nice things they do.

Tell them in specific detail how well they are going to behave (eg we’re going into the shop, we’re going to look with our eyes not our hands, you’re both going to hold onto the trolley while we walk around) and then notice those things out loud (you’re behaving so nicely, I like how well you’re holding onto the trolley) and afterwards talk about what a nice time you had in the shops (when you held onto the trolley, and walked around so quietly, and helped mum put things in, etc.)

Dont judge your parenting efficacy by bedtime - that’s shit for everyone and anyone pretending otherwise is lying! The key is to keep moving closer to bed - so start by getting supper and drinks and anything else from downstairs because once you go up, no one goes down again. Then do the bathroom routines (bath and teeth and toilet), get story books so once they’re in bed they don’t get back out. Once story finishes sit in silence. (if you don’t have the time/energy/inclination to stay til they sleep then just accept a bit of chaos but don’t beat yourself up about it)

Do either of them go to preschool/nursery?
If you can afford it at all I’d recommend signing them up - it’ll teach them how to play nicely with others, stimulate them with a different environment and give you a break too. We use the same phrases/rules as nursery and school to reinforce behaviour.

Could they be ready to stop napping? Both my kids stopped needing a nap at 2-2.5 and slept better with less messing about at bedtime if we didn’t nap.
I also find they behave better if we have a plan for the day. Doesn’t need to be flash or exciting, local park, pop to the shops, library, feed the ducks etc. but it helps break the day up.

Good luck and hang in there, I’m guessing it’s not too long until the oldest is at school and that will help.

@Samanabanana they wake up at 5am regardless of what time they're in bed. I tried 7pm, 8pm, 9pm. In the end I gave up and decided if they're waking up at 5am plus multiple times through the night then they can go to bed at 6 because otherwise I won't ever sleep. Especially with a newborn in the mix.

I do keep repeating no, putting them back to bed, etc but it doesn't actually do anything. Months worth of that and they still don't listen or stay in bed.

So what does your partner do in respect of house and DC?

How much parenting is your partner doing?

It sounds really stressful and I feel for you.

If you can, try and identify and reward the behaviour you want to see. Think about the things that would help you most. Then tell them - set it out visually on a board or poster, maybe a sticker chart with some of the very simple things - stay in bed, brush teeth, listen to mum etc.

Ideally you want it to be geared so they are things they can achieve and you can easily identify and praise and give a sticker for them to put up. Lots of praise as well. Once one gets a sticker then the other will want one too. May cause a little conflict at first but it should soon settle. Then if you want to you can have a ‘reward’ at the end of a certain amount achieved.

This could be anything, a pack of stickers, or something you’d be doing anyway like ‘ten minutes where you pick the game’. I found that a little time with each one, on their own, where they made the choices about the activity, reduced the boundary pushing elsewhere. What ever you think will motivate them.

And don’t be too hard on yourself. You have three children under four and that’s a massive challenge for them and for you right now. It will get easier and you’re doing okay. Best of luck.

Same. They are clearly not getting the individual attention they need. Why is the 4yo and 6yo on the same sleep schedule, that suits you but it's not working for them. Otoh my cousin has 3 under 5 and they are such well behaved children. You could spend all day with them easily. My cousin and dh have very, very firm boundaries though and each child has a different routine. It's tough because you have a newborn but that's not their fault that they are acting out.

That’s really hard.

I’d advise you to get up get dressed and go to the playground before 10am, stay there as long as you possibly can. Otherwise your day will be absolutely shite.

it’s so hard. Especially with a new baby. Good luck.

Why is the 4yo bedtime at 6? You have them at the same routine but they are at different ages with different needs.

This is so hard for you,children so close in age are difficult unless you have help.Just a suggestion do you know any teenagers who are at college and studying child care?Could you afford to pay them to help you and gain experience.Maybe play with them or all go to the park together so you have another pair of hands.The 4 year old can help put a picnic together,you really need help on your own this is near on impossible.Do you have any family support?.Doesyour husband play with the children when he is home,so many questions I know.Good luck

Oh and also as a pp said- praise the behaviour specifically. Not ‘you’re such a good boy’, rather ‘I really liked how you spoke so kindly to your sister there. You used kind words and were very thoughtful’. Or ‘that was really good listening’.

In the same vein, criticism should focus on the behaviour not the child. Not ‘you’re bad bratty children’ but ‘this behaviour of shouting and not listening is not ok and it is not allowed in this house’.

This sounds so difficult. We had problems with my DC 'not listening' at all. What worked for us was ruthless consistency - NEVER give in, even when you just can't be bothered. After a week of the inevitable tantrums, she got the message that we would not relent....so she did.

Positive reinforcement also works so much better than shouting/being harsh. Relentless positivity - making everything a game - is exhausting but it makes our house feel happier and me feel like I am not damaging our relationship by being annoyed all the time.

Second the suggestion of sticker charts with pictures. We have one where you get a star for teeth, star for bath, star for stories and then a star for staying in bed all night. Treat when there's lots of stars on the chart. Setting out the routine in pictures is also super helpful, even for children without SEN. They like routine and they also LIKE boundaries. Too much 'ignoring' bad behaviour does not work for us - she's pushing a boundary because she wants it to be enforced to feel secure.

With the two year old it’s naturally tricky, they can still be too young sometimes to understand consequences, reasons for doing things, they are very ‘in the moment’ so distant rewards don’t always work. And they are just at an age for pushing boundaries.

Unless of course they have some SEN that you haven’t mentioned, your four year old for sure can understand consequences and rewards and if you say ‘no’ or ‘no because…’ will understand why. Work on him first. The younger one will also be picking up on his behaviour. You say you say ‘no’, but what happens if your ‘no’ is ignored? What consequences are there?

6 is too early for bed. You’re not paying attention to their needs. I don’t blame you for being exhausted but I don’t blame them for their behaviour either.

In your shoes (easy for me to say) I would insist that your DH does at least one of the nights and early mornings at the weekends while you just sleep. And could you both arrange some childcare for a few hours a week, long enough for you to have a guaranteed break?