Urg ... potty training going wrong, do I give up for now?

[prefernot]

HI, I've posted a couple of times about training my dd, 25 months. I decided to do it because she was interested and getting increasingly fastidious about her nappies.

So last week on Thursday / Friday / Saturday / Sunday / Monday I was quite casual, just got the potty out in the morning, after nap and before bed and she sat on it happily and got more and more happy about doing poos on it in particular, wees came a bit later.

Encouraged, for the last couple of days I've had her entirely nappyless except for nap and bedtimes. Naptimes she's woken up dry so think I could give that up, bedtimes is to sort out later I know. I've had her in pants and sometimes trousers. The thing is, she hasn't once told me she needs the potty. Today was worse than yesterday in that almost every wee was an accident which seemed to rather surprise her when it happened and she's getting quite upset about 'failing' even though I'm reassuring her. So that whereas at the weekend she sat on the potty happily, now she seems to be slightly nervous of it and there's been lots of tears today.

I think mentally she's ready for this but physiologically maybe I'm pushing her too soon? What should I do? Continue or give up for a couple of months?

Prefernot - sometimes dd gets things if her toys do it for her first- it seems to take the pressure off, and helps her get the idea. What if Noddy or Big Ears suddenly said they needed the potty, were taken off for a wee, and got a round of applause? Dd's gorilla has helped with toilet paper, and washing hands IYSWIM. He's also a fairly naughty stuffed animal, and dd can usually do much better than his pathetic attempts, and doesn't hesitate to say so. Keeps the mood lighthearted!

elliott, yes, I read GF's 'potty training in one week' book which was helpful and the first stage went very well, but she just hasn't gone on to do any of the things she's supposed to in the second stage although she shows all the signs that mean she's ready. So that's probably mostly what's given me false expectations. And yes I do wonder if I could just have put her off for another couple of months if this whole process might not have been a bit easier. The trouble was she was SO keen and was getting so fussy about wearing nappies.

Pidge, the poo did out! With dp today at a library reading group!! In a way I'm glad it happened with him because he's been so blase about it sometimes and telling me to chill out (which I do need to I know). He even went out with her once last week without the potty or a change of clothes!!

catinthehat, how old's your potty trainee? Yes, I'm doing the Noddy and Big Ears routine. Noddy yells 'I want my potty!!' Big Ears runs to get it and there are varying degrees of success and applause. It hasn't sunk in yet but I keep trying. By the way how did you know she was mad on Noddy and Big Ears?!

elliott, yes, I read GF's 'potty training in one week' book which was helpful and the first stage went very well, but she just hasn't gone on to do any of the things she's supposed to in the second stage although she shows all the signs that mean she's ready. So that's probably mostly what's given me false expectations. And yes I do wonder if I could just have put her off for another couple of months if this whole process might not have been a bit easier. The trouble was she was SO keen and was getting so fussy about wearing nappies.

Pidge, the poo did out! With dp today at a library reading group!! In a way I'm glad it happened with him because he's been so blase about it sometimes and telling me to chill out (which I do need to I know). He even went out with her once last week without the potty or a change of clothes!!

catinthehat, how old's your potty trainee? Yes, I'm doing the Noddy and Big Ears routine. Noddy yells 'I want my potty!!' Big Ears runs to get it and there are varying degrees of success and applause. It hasn't sunk in yet but I keep trying. By the way how did you know she was mad on Noddy and Big Ears?!

Oh dear - re the poo! Was pretty inevitable though. And I am always delighted when my dp is the one who has to clear it up!

It sounds from everything you've said that you've made the right decision to start training, and your dd obviously knows what's going on. I think whilst some kids may 'get it' very quickly, maybe the process is a more gradual one for most of them. Don't feel bad if it takes a while.

Did any of you find, incidentally, that your little ones got very resistant to going on the potty at a certain point? Dd's refusing to use it a bit at the moment, I have to slightly cajole her sometimes ...

Potty resisting - yes - gosh I really do have a potty training obsession at the moment! What I've done when we're home is buy a loo seat insert and they I say to dd "Do you want to go on the loo or on the potty" ... that way she has some choice, but equally I win because she ends up on one of the two .

And if she just says an adamant 'no' when you really do know she's about to go if she doesn't sit on either soon? I've found I've almost 'forced' her onto it a couple of times and then stopped myself in time ... bad mummy ...

I'm obsessed with it too. Driving dp quietly mad!

I've 'forced' her to sit on the loo / potty before mealtimes of if we're about to go out. Otherwise, I'm more relaxed. She now knows the rules if we are going out or are about to eat.

Giving her the choice between loo seat and potty has got round this problem, as she's generally happy to do one of the two!

Prefernot - Noddy made an appearance earlier, that's how I knew! Struck a chord as dd is a praise junkie rather than stickers or sweeties. She started at 2.0ish and was quickly much happier on the real loo, as she could hop up on her little steps (and get praise for being independent etc). You could take the Noddy thing the next step, which is " Noddy just told me you said you wanted the loo",give her lots of praise for saying she wants the loo (obviously she hasn't said anything at this stage) take DD to the loo, and whether she performs or not, then praise her for ASKING for the loo. Then she gets praise for asking rather than just weeing, which you already know she can do. Convoluted , but again that approach might be worth a try. Also, if she doesn't get the idea, she doesn't feel she's failed you, you've both only played a pretend game.

Yes, I guess it's about getting the 'law' laid down!

Re. using the toilet, I've found so far that dd's not that bothered about it, she won't sit there very long and I'd been led to believe that they have nothing to put their feet on in order to 'push' a poo out?

This afternoon I scoured all my books and have come to the conclusion that what I'm doing is 'toilet timing' rather than 'toilet training' in that I'm learning when dd's likely to need to go, sticking her on the potty and she's generally obliging by going, but in no way is she showing any signs of 'training' which would mean that she's learning when she needs to go herself and managing it for herself.

In this respect I really do wish now I'd waited anothr 3-6 months or so. I'm not sure if I could / should give up at this stage though? Something in me can't quite bear to ...

prefernot - how long have you been trying for? I felt just like this to start with, because we always had to prompt dd to go on the potty, but gradually she is getting the idea and asking herself. If you're really seeing no improvement then it might be time to go back to nappies and try again in a few months, but it's worth giving it 2-3 weeks now you've started to see if your dd picks up on the idea.

Only a week so far, Pidge. The thing is I 'm not sure how she'll get the idea so long as I'm regularly putting her on the potty and therefore not leaving her long enough to ask herself. If I do leave her to ask she always has an accident ... Maybe I should leave it for now and try in a few months? As it is it's quite stressful as I feel I'm trying to act the role of her bladder and bowels!!

If you're stressed out and hating it - it's not worth it IMO! You may find it all much easier in a few months.

Good luck whatever you decide.

How long are you leaving it between putting her on ? Could you extend the interval by say 15 minutes each day and see how long she can go ? I agree she needs to feel the full/need to go sensation in order to crack it and you could just go for it and put up with the accidents, asshe may still get it quickly. Our dd was a little like yours but got so frustrated when she didn't make it that we left it a while - but by then she was just plain stubborn !!

Today I really don't know what to do. This morning on waking she said she needed a poo and went and did a wee all on her own. Great I thought! Then between about 7am and 10.30am she did 2 wees on the floor through her clothes without the slightest mention of needing the potty, we were at home too so she wasn't overly distracted by anything else. I didn't lose my temper but calmly said 'oh dear, best to do that on the potty' kind of thing. But I did suggest to her maybe she wore a nappy for a while and she lost it screaming 'no no no no no'.

Deep down I think this is probably my fault. I shouldn't have started doing it as I think she's probably not ready. But I think I'm going to stick with it until she is and hope that's not too far away!

could you try announcing when you are going for a wee (obviously not in a packed restaurant!) and maybe see if she takes your lead. We had to remind ds when we first started potty training in the summer, he now tells us, but if it has been a while since his last visit then I do ask/remind.

hey don't be so hard on yourself! what exactly is your fault? You took her lead, she's obviously (still) keen....she's just had a few accidents, that's all!
I hve to say I always found hanging aroudn at home was the worst time for accidents - there wouldn't be any 'natural break' when I could steer him to having a wee without having to break him off from play, which he hated (still does). He would never voluntarily leave his play to go - even now it is always very last minute! Out and about it was always easier - he woudl wee before we went out, when we got somewhere, before we left etc etc.
If you are finding it hard you could occasionally suggest she has nappies on for a break - leave it up to her - we did have the odd day when ds would be in pullups because he didn't want to put his pants back on (after a nap or long journey) but we carried on as though he was in pants - I don't think he ever deliberately weed in them - it just took the stress out of it for a while!
I think she is doing well if she is dry after her nap - ds1 managed this at nursery but only about 50/50 at home (longer deeper sleep I think) so I've given up trying, he might as well stay in pullups till he gives up the nap!

Totally agree with Elliott - she was giving you good signs that she was ready and you've followed those. And from what you've said today she DOES have some idea what she's doing. It's bound to be hit and miss to some extent to start with, so, whilst I still think if you're really stressed about it you should stop, there are very good signs that if you stick with if for a week or two she'll make good progress. But you should both be happy-ish, that's the main thing. Maybe make a decision to re-assess progress in 1-2 weeks and see if you're getting anywhere.

We went through a few weeks of putting dd in nappies when out and about, to lower my stress levels! But gradually we've had to bother less and less with those. There is just a messy bit at the beginning when you never know what is going to happen. One minute they seem to have got the idea, the next minute they're all distracted and haven't a clue!

Yes it is frustrating. For me it's one of those events that's teaching me as much about myself as it is about her. I think I'm much more of a 'control freak' than I like to admit! Because I've been very patient with all the other things like sleep, food etc. but this one seems to really get to me and it's because of the unpredictability. I don't think I'm giving her great messages and I have got to try harder.

Yes, she's quite keen to go when I do. In fact now if I say i'm going for a wee at home she picks up her potty and says 'xxx come too' and follows me and sits on her potty and usually does something. Maybe I should do that more often even if I don't need to go!

And I agree about going out in that it's easier to build it into a little routine of before / arriving / leaving. It's just that I'm in SE London and to go to almost everywhere takes an age on public transport (all my friends are in the North so we tend to have to meet up half way). My nightmare is a big poo in the pram on the underground when it's packed with commuters!! It's bound to happen sometime ...

By the way I really do appreciate your advice and help and especially patience with me ranting on endlessly about all this!

A friend of mine, who is a mother of four, hates potty training -says it is the first time they can 'defy' you and have the control! Think she is right!

And so what if she has a poo on the tube, no worse than the potential of them being sick everywhere/posseting when tiny (that was my big fear)- and it might just happen next to someone who hasn't give up their seat !

Oh goodness - I know what you mean about getting stuck on public transport with a not quite potty trained infant! I'm in SE London too and am just trying to decide if I can pluck up the courage NOT to put dd in nappies when we go up to Oxford St for the day on Friday!

catgirl, to be honest I'm not that bothered about what other people on the tube might think if dd die a big whopper in her pink knickers, just more bothered about the practicalities of getting her off and cleaned up and her upset over it.

Oh, Pidge, where are you in SE London? Can I just double check with you then, you are still putting your dd in nappies in the day regularly? Does she ever now ASK for the potty by herself? Could you just outline a vague schedule of how a typical day might go for you with wee / poo etc. If you don't mind of course!

prefernot I found it all v stressful too so I know where you're coming from. You are doing really well to keep your patience (I managed to lose it quite often with ds1 but he has still ended up more or less trained!)