If you have a form of punishment ie naughty step do you use it regardless even if you think your child is over tired or hungry or there is some reason for the misbehaviour?

[VanillaPumpkin]

Dd1 started school this week and has spent the meal time having the mother of all tantrums screaming and shouting. I have never seen her so bad. DH did the naughty step with her but is so black and white about it. I let him do it but then something else happened and my instinct was that dd was beside herself and needed calming before any punishment would work. I told her in a stern voice to stop the noise and ignored her. At this point DH came down from the bath (where he was with dd2) and whisked dd1 away from the table saying he had warned her that any more shouting would mean another trip to the naughty step. I totally disagreed and actually stood up to stop him and took her from him and put her back at the table. We then had a mini stilted row trying for dd not to hear / understand that we were disagreeing. DD1 was so shocked (this has never happened) that she stopped kicking off ate the rest of her tea and is now having some fruit for pudding.
I am of the opinion that her starting school this week has changed lots of things and want to make allowances for her. DH is more black and white and thinks her discipline should be maintained. I just feel sorry for her. Am I being soft? Do you make exceptions? Help please. We will obv talk when children in bed as realise how bad to disagree about this sort of thing in front of the children etc etc. Will check back after I have bathed dd1

I agree with you, I cut ds some slack when he's overtired or ill or there are real reasons why he may not be Mr Perfect. Good God, dh would expect some understanding if he'd had a hard day at work or something, wouldn't he?

I don't mean let everything slide but a little bit more leniency is not a bad thing when times are tough.

I'd probably still use the bottom stair regardless, but there are always warnings given and they include me saying something along the lines of 'I understand you're tired/hungry (insert whatever is apporpriate), but your behaviour isn't acceptable...........etc, etc. Definitely sufficient warning is given before they go to the stairs. Difficult if they'r mid-tantrum I understand. Mine are older now and only ds2 uses the bottom stair these days as a 'thinking area'. He'll be four tomorrow.

I am a SAHM, so with them all the time so it is easier for me to know how they have been etc. But sometimes I think I am a bit soft. I have stood back while secretly disagreeing with DH before but I think we were both shocked by my intervening this time. He just handed her over.
We are quite a good team usually and balance each other well normally.....

i agree with you i would have done the same

when dd2 comes back from her dad she is so naughty... but i now know it is a reaction from being away etc, so find it hard to disipline her when she is like this

Yes we are both strict with ourselves to give the warning. I have also said almost word for word what you quoted there Aero.... I think I am struggling as the school thing is throwing things out and I am conscious of that. Unfortunately dd doesn't get quiet when she is tried she gets louder and stroppier....
They are all upstairs now finishing off their bath as I felt dd should be in bed by 6 tonight. I have had a quick hug with dh and said we will talk later so it is not like we have fallen out but it was very uncomfortable. Is our Wedding Anniversary too.

I mean said that in the past Aero, not today obv.
Chocolate - That must be hard to cope with your dd being away and probably another set of rules and maybe being a bit spoilt (if her dad is like mine was - all the treats were with him)

I mean spoilt in a positive way ie getting treats. That reads all wrong. I hope you see what I mean. My dad got to have all the fun with me while Mum had the day to day drudge of school and meals etc.

oh i know only to well what you mean!!!!, it is horrible, as i have in my head that she will be so pleased to see me etc.... but she is the opposite with tantrums etc, normally lasts until the next day....

I agree with you VP. I think mums can be a bit more intuitive about these things and know when to let it ride and when to put the foot down. Dads often act as if the next step is borstal if they don't discipline the child right now!

I agree with you vp, men can be very insensitive. Starting school is a traumatic time. She should be cut some slack.

i only use the naughty mat for ds if he has been really naughty - i.e hitting his sister. if he is just screaming i ask him to go into another room and he can come back when he has calmed himself down.

if he is poorly etc i go all soft on him tho...

it's extremely common for children who have just started school to go wild when the get home. They have spent the day 'confirming' in the classroom and tend to let it all out at home. your dh is being too rigid, her behaviour isn't 'naughty' it is the perfectly normal behaviour of a child who has just started school. she needs to be supported not punished.

i am not a fan of the naughty step method personally and would advocate scrapping it all together in favour of dialogue.

'conforming' in the classroom not 'confirming' .........

No, only use it when naughty, not tired, hungry or poorly. Dp is the same as yours though and doesn't see any difference

Dh is very keen on consistency! Maybe it is a male / female thing...in which case of course we are right . Seriously though this is good feedback thank you. I have read it all to DH.
Eeewaawoowah - Do you have any form of 'punishment' then? (That sounds awful doesn't it?)

I mean a consequence for bad behaviour?

hi VP - it depends what you define as bad behaviour. tantruming is a normal childhood activity, it isn't bad behaviour or naughtiness, it's a form of expression for kids who don't have a more sophisticated method of conveying their feelings. it doesn't warrant a consequence. it requires a bit of understanding and unravelling. so, we talk about it, we calm ds down and ask him to tell us what he feels. it sounds horribly liberal and soppy but it works.

I was raised by very strict disciplinarian parents and from an early age I knew there had to be something better than the methods employed by my folks and I have tried everything not to emulate their approach.

Recently I read the book 'Unconditional Parenting' by Alfie Kohn and it really spoke volumes to me. If you haven't read it I would recommend you give it a look. Google it and you'll find the alfie kohn website which will give you an overview.

I think in your OP your instinct was to comfort and calm your dd and not to punish. I think your instinct was right and I firmly believe in following your instincts as a parent.

ps. Kohn also has some interesting thoughts to offer on the issue of parents disagreeing with each other in front of their children. he looks at it not as an opportunity for the child to 'divide and conquer' but as a chance for parents to teach their children an important life lesson ie. in life people disagree, people argue but people can resolve their differences amicably through debate.

eewahwoowah - I am nodding at your posts here (not having read Kohn btw, but I agree with what you say here) and am absolutely wetting myself - you have just omitted the "D"'s in your name, haven't you?

To the OP: I think you did the right thing - I don;t think it is right to punish behaviour that is not borne of "badness". When my DS is tired or frustrated I just keep him away from DP and we have lots of cuddles etc. Admittedly, sometimes this does not work and he thumps me on the nose so he gets the bottom step for this (and not the previous behaviour). It's all about judging the situation correctly IMO.

Oh that is interesting.
I agree the tantrumming is not naughty per see. She literally can not help herself. Once she had calmed I spoke to her about what had happened with her Daddy and me and said that we didn't know what to do when she was behaving like that. She did seem to be thinking about it.
My stepmum was v strict and seemed very scary. I would hate for dd to see me like that, and actually don't think there is any chance of that. I will look Kohn up thank you. I do think dd feels more secure knowing her boundaries esp at the moment when so much has changed. I just have it in the back of my head that hugging during a tantrum is rewarding that behaviour .
DH and I have talked it through and both have things to think about. I hope I for one deal with it all better if it happens again....

[thick emoticon] Where is the name from???

It's how you say Edward Woodward if you take the "D"'s out

Don't ask me how I know....

Oh and because dd's 'bad' behaviour is nearly always bourne from tiredness I sometimes feel I am making excuses for her...She is a generous, charming funny thoughtful bright little girl when she has enough sleep and food, but can be a moody, stroppy, unkind misery without it. Taking after her mother I dare say.......

A-ha! Edward Woodward.

I think dd1 is quite like me in temperament and perhaps that is why I feel so sympathetic towards her when dh doesn't....