If you have a form of punishment ie naughty step do you use it regardless even if you think your child is over tired or hungry or there is some reason for the misbehaviour?

[VanillaPumpkin]

Dd1 started school this week and has spent the meal time having the mother of all tantrums screaming and shouting. I have never seen her so bad. DH did the naughty step with her but is so black and white about it. I let him do it but then something else happened and my instinct was that dd was beside herself and needed calming before any punishment would work. I told her in a stern voice to stop the noise and ignored her. At this point DH came down from the bath (where he was with dd2) and whisked dd1 away from the table saying he had warned her that any more shouting would mean another trip to the naughty step. I totally disagreed and actually stood up to stop him and took her from him and put her back at the table. We then had a mini stilted row trying for dd not to hear / understand that we were disagreeing. DD1 was so shocked (this has never happened) that she stopped kicking off ate the rest of her tea and is now having some fruit for pudding.
I am of the opinion that her starting school this week has changed lots of things and want to make allowances for her. DH is more black and white and thinks her discipline should be maintained. I just feel sorry for her. Am I being soft? Do you make exceptions? Help please. We will obv talk when children in bed as realise how bad to disagree about this sort of thing in front of the children etc etc. Will check back after I have bathed dd1

I would take from that then Vanilla - would you like to be made to sit on the bottom step for being tired, hence ratty? Nah - you would like a hug and being told that someone understands, surely?

That's when I "got it" anyway. DS is charming and funny and bubbly until he is tired - and then he is hell on a stick!

Hmmm - yes. Like me too!

Actually - I take issue with your DH then. Ask him, if when he comes in from a bad day at work and snaps at something, whether he feels being made to sit on the bottom step to reflect on his behaviour would help him deal with how he is feeling - or whether he would like to be "spoiled" and have his head rubbed and feel that he is understood

Yes you are right. DH is ridiculously easy going, but he is beginning to get fed up with work so perhaps I can take that apporach with him. It is spotting the signs and trying to stopit before it escalates isn't it...
I am going to experiment with a very sensitive 'soft' approach this week and see how we do.......Hopefully I will have something positive to show to dh. He is a decent man after all

I don't mean easy going. I mean impossible to stress out. Laid back, but thinks discipline and consistency is crucial with the dd's.....

I know exactly what you are saying Vanilla; perhaps you need to tell your DH that consistency includes consistently understanding when tiredness is the issue as opposed to inherent "badness" (oh, how I wish I were more erudite!)

I tend to work around DP/DS conflicts to ensure DS is not full-on tired around DP. At the end of the day I think that the vast majority of men don't get it - not a criticism, but more of an evolutionary thing!

This is really interesting, I was going to add how I feel about this but eeewahwoowah has beaten me to it! I agree with her. I found when DS gets really tired and overwhelmed things can fall apart for him pretty quickly, the best intervention I have found is to drop whatever I'm doing, get down to his level, and just give him a big hug and keep hugging until he is ready to pull away. Then I ask him how he's feeling and what we can do to make it better.

It must be SO overwhelming sometimes to be a child.

Ok, I have been trying really hard today to keep it all calm. It has been a disaster in some ways for various reasons, but I feel I have done the best job in the circumstances. DD has been calmer than yesterday. DH is now doing the bedtime stories and I can hear raised voices but she will be in bed any minute. I think I need to stress to him the making allowances thing again....He generally does bath and bedtime but I wonder if I should take over for a little bit...but then I think no. It is important for me not to be so controlling too. She is his daughter too, I just hope he comes round to my way of thinking...

Well, I would take today as it was and shrug your shoulders and think "I will continue positively tomorrow". Sometimes things just happen and I am pleased for you that you can see you did the best under the circumstances

You know what though - if it were me I would take over bathtime/bedtime if you can hear raised voices - just to instill that it is calm time in DD. DH can do it again once you have instilled that? It's not about control. IMO it's about the different roles in parenting. Can you strike a deal with DH over something? He does something household (washing up/whatever) if you do bath and get her into bed - and calm - so he can come upstairs and do special daddy-time story.

Don't sweat the small things

Following this with interest as it's a v. familiar scenario in our house! I have always wondered about how to maintain the boundaries while accepting there will be some worse behaviour during times of change (we are moving house and ds is being a nightmare). I know WHY he's emotional and stroppy and uncooperative but haven't been able to decide whether relaxing the "rules" is the right thing to do or whether it will make him more insecure if I suddenly change the way I react. Everything's always such a fine balancing act....

IMO, toddlers don't have boundaries - other than the ones you set. As toddlers constantly morph, I think rules and boundaries also have to.

Don't usually use it when they're (properly) poorly - but I do stick to it even if they're tired/hungry - call me an evil cow if you like but I believe that they have to learn that certain types of behaviour are not acceptable - regardless of if you're tired or hungry.

evil cow

I have asked DH to make allowances for this week. He has grudgingly agreed. I am usually washing up clearing away after dinner etc when he does bath and bedtime so it would be easy for us to swap. I think he would be OK with that too. I will play it by ear tonight. Thanks all.
TIQ - You would get on well with dh .