Is shouting at your children always a form of abuse?

[blisscake]

This is related to another thread I've been watching. I would like to know what people think. If it is abuse then can anyone honestly say that they have never shouted at their child and therefore that they have never abused their child? When does shouting at your child become "abuse" and when is it just ""bad parenting? Is it ever acceptable to shout at your children?

PS Ds1 isn't deaf, there's nothing wrong with his hearing.

In answer to the op no.

Obviously it depends on what you are shouting so not using abusive language/names, but surely we all need to shout as one time or another.

I do shout at my DD occasionally and I think it is important for her to realise that mummies are also people with feeling who get tired or angry too. I try to apoligise afterwards and find that it really does pay off. She will give me a cuddle and it is okay again. The other day she shouted at me to make her a crumpet and I told her it wasn't nice to shout at people. She came back in the room 5 mins later and said 'I'm sorry I shouted at you mummy' and gave me a cuddle, so I also think it is teaching her something to.

I shout everyday

Colditz you make a good point about different children, I remember being mortified as a child when my dad shouted at me, but my sister was not bothered at all.

Surely shouting in itself is OK but it's the way that you shout or what you shout that might be a problem. I definitely think that my shouting borders on bullying sometimes when I lose it and then I seem to scare my children - which is not nice to see. My new year's resolution is to shout less and so far I am shouting less and trying not to shout angrily ( but still shouting.) The other thread that the OP mentioned is also helping b/c I have realised that I occasionally have similar feelings. Also hearing your kids copy the way you shout is not very flattering!

There's shouting and shouting.. as already been pointed out there are different ways a shout can come over and way I see it, I'd rather have been the first person in my child's life to shout at him rather than a complete stranger or someone else which might be more of a shock at the time to have been sheltered until then from a shout!.. might not be nice but it's part of life sometimes for people to shout.
My dh sometimes shouts at me and vice versa, sometime he/i probably deserve it, sometimes not.. but it's the way we then resolve things that made us shout or make us feel like shouting, I feel is important.

I do hate people who swear and shout though.. not something I do at my son.

I shout daily.

Have never raised a finger to my kids or shouted abuse at them. However I tend to shout when I've had to repeat things for the fourth time or if we need to get out the door pronto and it just aint happening. I generally apologise if I should.

I defy anybody to raise 3 kids of 4 and under without shouting.

I have 3 lovely well balanced kids so the answer to your question is no.

Have to say if shouting was to ever get on the forbidden list of discipline methods todays kids are going to become such delicate little flowers they'll all just simply crumble the minute life throws any hurdles in their path.

I get myself tied up in knots about whether the way I speak to/shout at my children is sufficiently loving/respectful/nurturing etc etc etc.

I do shout, occasionally in an out of control manner, but not often. When I genuinely lose the plot, I inevitably end up apologising.

I take comfort from the fact that when DD1 and DD2 are playing mummies and babies, DD1 sometimes sounds stern and slightly bossy but never shouts abuse and never sounds like someone who has lost her temper. If she continually sounded like a fishwife I would worry

Its been really interesting to read all of this, I am relieved to hear balanced views about shouting. I read the comment on the other thread and felt this awful sinking feeling. There's so much written/spoken/advertised about how we "should" bring up our children, all it does is give me a feeling of being crap at being a parent as I never achieve this ideal whether its about managing their behaviour, feeding them the proper food, playing with them,educating them... the list goes on.
I do lose my rag with my kids sometimes and I'm not proud of it. I've never shouted abusive names or comments just expressed frustration or shouted to try and get them to do what they're told. There was a comment earlier about telling a child off for pinching - sometimes they do just need to be told off don't they?
I also like the idea of apologising afterwards - I suppose if I'm going to model "bad" behaviour I need to model how to put things right too.

All this pressure to do things "right" all the time really hacks me off.

My Mum used to beat us. I shout at my kids on average about 4 times a week but never hit them. I nearly always apologise afterwards unless they did something really outrageous. I don t call them names or anything, although I have called DS a Dipstick a couple of times . I am never scared to say sorry and explain why I was angry.

I agree with blisscake that this constant pressure to do the "right thing" makes you question yourself all the time and I also feels that sometimes it can undermine consistency as a parent, which in turn can lead to other problems. Certainly takes a lot of the enjoyment out of being a parent.

I dont always like myself after I have shouted but I think I would have to be a saint not to sometimes and I would hate myself a whole lot more and more importantly damage my kids a whole lot more if I was physically hurting them. Physical punishment is Assault IMO. Who on earth can honestly say that physically attacking a tiny little person is a decent way to parent.

So no I don t think that shouting is always abusive but I think sometimes it could be if combined with name calling and undermining.

It's sad isn't it - all these things we have to make sure we're doing "by the book" - someone used the word "nurture" in a thread and it seemed to me to be a kind of dated and hippy-ish word to use. But actually that's what I want to concentrate on. I don't want to feel wrong for losing my temper now and then,or if i didn't discipline them in the most positive or contructive way. Similarly I don't want to be constantly strung up about making sure they're getting their five a day or if they've had a drink of squash not water, or if I let them eat biscuits instead of fruit sometimes (feeding crap food being another form of abuse apparently). I just want to love and enjoy my kids and bring them up the best that I can. I don't need a constant bench mark of perfection to measure myself against as I'll always fail.

I've just got in from the school run feeling awful after yelling at my 8 year old and making him cry - I was frustrated that he was not ready on time AGAIN and had lost his juice bottle at school AGAIN. I have got a lot on at mo, but find it hard to forgive myself when I lose my temper with my son. After all, he's just a little fella and I'm a big mummy...I know mornings are my worst times for giving my son a rocket, so would welcome any advice on how other people deal with the morning "bottleneck" - so much to do with two kids, work to get to, etc, and so little time! I probably "lose it" - as in shout aggressively - at him about once a week on average - sometimes not at all, sometimes in quick succession! I want him to take more responsibility for being ready himself, but am I expecting too much of him? I think I'm a pretty fab mum to my boys, barring my tendency to yell when things go awry, and I find my eldest son is beginning to copy suit when he's frustrated/cross. Any advice??

I'm a shouty mum (trying to shout less). I 'boom' about things like tidying up and arsing around when we are meant to be leaving the house etc. The problem is, it is so effective .

If you don't think you are wrong to shout then why apologise? I would only apologise if I thought I had over-reacted. My mum was a big shouter and always apologising - it became totally worthless - why keep doing it if she was so sorry?

Dd cannot stand shouting - if I raise my voice to her sternly (not even shouting) we need at least a 30 min hug & love-fest to get her over the trauma . I see her friends being shouted at and they generally just laugh it off. I also see some kids who, while very charming and lovable, would probably have me screaming at them all day So I really don't think you can generalise at all about shouting.

I think occasional shouting is OK, in context. If you don't do it all the time, and as has been said as long as you don't shout abusive, demeaning things - it can work as "right that's it you are really pushing it now." Which probably works better if it's only once in a while as well.

With me I only do shout if I'm emotionally overwhelmed - never in cold blood. I would not shout at DS deliberately to punish him or upset him - I shout if he has been stropping for ages, or refusing to get his coat on, or I drop my purse while trying to put money in the parking meter while trying to stop him running away and just can't take it any more, as happened yesterday - and I go "Right that is ENOUGH STOP THIS RIGHT NOW!" Or sometimes "AAARRRRGGGGH you are driving me BANANAS" which is kind of joke shouting and makes us laugh.

If I've yelled at him in anger I tend to apologise later when everything has calmed down. I just say "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have shouted at you, I was very grumpy wasn't I."

To answer your question acinonyx, I thin the occasional yell that shows you are being pushed to the limit doesn't do any harm. But, I also think shouting is aggressive and does signify a loss of control, so an apology is in order to show the child that you realise shouting isn't something you actually approve of in general.

Constantly shouting and then constantly apologising in a rollercoaster way would be awful though.

I shouted my head off today when my 6 year old climbed up and got the window keys and opened the first floor big window in their bedroom so my 4 and 3 year olds could 'get some fresh air'! I had already shouted at him for running off instead of going into the house when we got home. I had also shouted at my 3 year old for throwing stones. I shouted at my 4 year old for telling me "no I'm not coming in for a bath!". I feel like I've been shouting all afternoon, well at least since school pick up! But never once have I shouted anything demeaning or abusive. I'm usually just repeating an instruction, BUT LOUDLY!!! I sound dreadfull when I do it and I do catch them shouting just like me sometimes. Honestly though, no ones takes a blind bit of notice when I speak in a normal voice. They only spring in to action when I put the volume up. How am I ever going to break this cycle?

If you do nothing but shout at your children and never interact with them in any other way then it can be considered abusive IMHO, however I can't see how anyone could raise a child and never raise their voice.

sometimes when i'm really down on myself and I feel like all i do is shout, my hubby points out that I'm dwelling on the negatives and i do in fact spend far more time being nice to them than anything else. I do beat myself up about shouting. I don't think my children dwell on it at all. they're generally happy go lucky kids. Exuberant I would say! I just want to be a perfect mother with a constant smile on my face, cakes in the oven, crafts on the table and smiling well behaved children politely pottering around me. But then I remember that is cloud cuckooland!