2.5 year old DS is making me miserable

[elliebb92]

I'd love to know if anyone else is in my shoes.
DS is my first child (I haven't yet braved having a second although do want to soon) and he's always been hard work. I don't mean in terms in sleep which I'm lucky with, but his character is difficult quite a lot of the time.
From 6 months old I could see he was more frustrated than the other babies. He's fine in terms of development (albeit he's always the last to reach a milestone in our group of friends) but what I mean is he hasn't got ASD or anything.

This morning I have had to put him in his bed 3 times. One for throwing cars at me when I asked him not to, one for not allowing me to clean up his breakfast mess whilst he's shouting "PLAY PLAY PLAY" and the last time was him going nuts over a draw that wouldn't open so he was screaming to high heaven instead of asking for help.
I did suffer with PND and I know I struggled to bond with him at the start which I always worry is a contributing factor to his behaviour now. But I'm in tears right now feeling like everyone I know has an easier ride than me even with 2 kids. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself :-/

Firstly, you shouldn't be putting him to bed. Bed should be associated with sleep, not punishment. Secondly, whilst a time out is reasonable for the first incident, a toddler doesn't understand or care about cleaning up. He did nothing wrong. You are punishing him because you are prioritising cleaning. Also, most two year olds scream from frustration. You can't expect him to ask for help.

I think you need to revisit your own mental health. This emotive post screams of someone who is probably still depressed, has no Patience and unrealistic expectations of their toddler.

I agree with @SherlockTomes I'm afraid. 2.5 yos are incredibly exhausting.

Throwing things should not be tolerated and time out is fine.

Wanting to pla is natural. So say yes we will play when X is done - take your plate over there/put your spoon in the dishwasher etc and Mummy will be able to play. Distraction and keep him occupied. Or just ignore if that doesn't work.

What are his verbal skills like? You say he is always late to milestones. Is he able to ask for help? But screaming in frustration is again normal.

My 2.5 yo DD has screamed at me this morning because she wanted to climb into her car seat by herself (which she usually does but she was taking ages so I just strapped her in after giving her a countdown). I wouldn't think to discipline her for this tbh she's just being a 2 yo & getting frustrated. We had a big cuddle after! She also likes to throw things. It's hard work!

Your DS behaviour sounds very very familiar to mine, also 2.5, also a bloody nightmare at times. I don't really do time ours though because he's so little still. I just ignore or, if he's doing something like throwing, remove items and distract him. I just had to take him for a nappy change and he threw a puzzle at me. Puzzle went back in the box and away and I just continued to change his nappy. They like to test boundaries, I don't think you're doing anything wrong other than beating yourself up for having a perfectly normal toddler!

This is kind of how toddlers work! I wouldn't be putting him to bed throughout the day - is that meant to be a punishment or what?

Toddlers are tiny, irrational, emotion-driven creatures.

Try reframing how you deal with it. How to talk so little kids will listen has loads of great strategies for avoiding conflict, as do Janet Lansbury's books.

Agree with PPs - 2.5 year olds can't control their behaviour so it has to be managed through distraction or calming down in other ways. So if he shouted at me while I was clearing up, I'd be saying something like, "ooh look at that squirrel in the garden" (which may or may exist), or mirroring his behaviour and giving it a name, "gosh DS it is soooooo annoying when mummy can't play with you isn't it! I'll be done in 5 mins, why don't you get the toy out you want to play with so we're ready".

2 year olds are exhausting, I don't miss that age! Remember that when you're out, you might only see the parents who are having a good day and have left the house on time!

'going nuts over a draw that wouldn't open so he was screaming to high heaven instead of asking for help'

Why is this a reason to send him to bed? Yes I'm sure it was loud and annoying but he's 2 and doesn't always have the emotional poise to ask 'Excuse me, mummy, can you open this drawer for me?' DD is 3 and sometimes gets really frustrated and resorts to crying or shouting at something when she's technically perfectly capable of asking for help. But in the moment she's frustrated and annoyed and it comes out like that. It's not a reason to punish.

You've just described the most typical toddler, you need to be understanding things from his point of view, not punishing him for developmental behaviours. Punishing won't stop him doing those things, unless you eventually break him enough not to bother asking you to play or explore his abilities.

I have a 2.5 yr old DS and what you've described is perfectly normal toddler behaviour (and let me tell you, having also got teenagers, it hasn't even peaked yet).

Toddler tantrums are normal, it's all part of learning, development, pushing boundaries...it's how they show their frustration. You need to find coping mechanisms or other ways of dealing with things. For instance...

"One for throwing cars at me when I asked him not to" <<< All toddlers throw, it's a developmental milestone. Maybe try and find something he can throw (not at you!), talk to him about what is appropriate to throw and what isn't

"One for not allowing me to clean up his breakfast mess whilst he's shouting "PLAY PLAY PLAY" <<< Leave the mess, what's the worst that can happen? He wants to play. If it's not urgent, then play and clean up the mess later, when he's having a nap or having lunch. Choose your battles. Punishing him for things like this must be exhausting.

"and the last time was him going nuts over a draw that wouldn't open so he was screaming to high heaven instead of asking for help." <<< Totally normal, toddlers are independent. Try moving him away, distraction works. Try getting down to his level and telling him, calmy and controlled to listen to you - and that if something is difficult you can help. Toddlers understand way more than we give them credit for. Or just ignore him when he screams which is often what I do.

I read 'How to talk so little kids will listen'. It made me realise that to a large extent I'm master of my own parenting happiness. I've realised over the past couple of years that how I behave and how I parent has a massive bearing on DD's behaviour.

I used to be dismissive of parenting advice thinking it was all about 'positive parenting' but it is very much not a case of always giving in or never saying 'no'. My boundaries for DD are actually quite firm but I have learned what to expect from small children, how they process information differently from us, what they need to be more content.

I still get it wrong a lot but we are in a much happier place since I realised that how I dealt with things would impact DD's behaviour SO much. We've gone from me being worried that I was bringing up a potential brat to us having a very nice time the majority of the time.

Your child sounds like a typical 3.5 year old.

I've 2.25 year-old twins.
One wants to play straight after breakfast, when I want to tidy up, and will shout Play, play play too, while tugging at my clothes.
Sometimes I say "mummy is tidying. Why don't you pick a toy/book and we'll play with that in a minute when I'm finished". (he'll still continue whining/ tugging at me to play).

Sometime I look at it from his point of view, and leave the tidying to later. I sit down beside him, give him a hug, go in to play. Generally after about 5 mins, he's happy for my to quickly tidy up.

I think you've described a normal toddler, and should not punish them by putting them in bed for normal behavior.

If you think they are frustrating at 2.5 years wait until age 14! Get outdoors and burn off the energy.

This is a good book - my kids are adults now but this approach definitely helped when they were little

How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk

I think you need to do some research on normal toddler development and how best to handle it. If you punish for little things like this now, you are going to teach him that any emotion is bad and should be hidden and then you will have real problems when he is a teenager.
The Sarah Ockwell Smith Gentle Parenting books are easy to read and great and the AHA website is good for looking at development.

2.5 year olds are exhausting and frustrating and at times, really boring so make sure you are doing things for you. Both on your own and when he's around.

Toddlers are shit.

My eldest was the easiest of my two kids at this age. By my own admission it was largely because I ignored all of the toddler tantrums because i was too busy with his newborn sibling. I remember once he lay on the kitchen floor because he didn't want to eat and I just walked over him. That kind of thing. Once they realise their bullshit doesn't get attention, they stop it. IMO.

My youngest was a harder toddler. But I pandered to him more because his brother was at school by then and I had more time/energy. I really wish I'd just ignored it all like DS1.

This book and website is excellent.

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2010/04/no-bad-kids-toddler-discipline-without-shame-9-guidelines/

Basically every situation is a learning situation. I teach children with autism and other and many of the phrases she uses are what we use to show kindness but clear boundaries.

I don't agree with everything she writes, eg her breastfeeding advice but you chose what works for you. I chose to bf and cosleep longer term. I did and do also use distraction at this age and made a mental note to tackle it differently 'if' it keeps happening. Sometimes you just don't have time!

She advocates for time in than time out. At this stage carrying them somewhere else and chatting to them is helpful.

This age is exhausting and it does get better. There's another little stage around 4 too. which I'm being reminded of right now

This is another really useful book and is free on kindle right now:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Talk-Little-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/184812614X/ref=ascdff_184812614X/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310834580283&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11043068238579648361&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006948&hvtargid=pla-470202693344&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

Hope that link works!

I used to be dismissive of parenting advice thinking it was all about 'positive parenting' but it is very much not a case of always giving in or never saying 'no'.

Absolutely

"Ask me something I can say yes to" is a really useful phrase. "I can say yes to xyz" if they need help. They may be sobbing and screaming but they get there eventually.

Paragraphs aren't work today for some reason.

Not to pile on @elliebb92 as it must be tough for you to read these replies, but I really think this is a case of picking your battles. It’s not about gentle parenting etc, if that’s not your vibe, just understanding age appropriate behaviour and not picking every hill to die on. It must be exhausting for you and I imagine the nice times are few and far between as you’re constantly battling. Just give both of you some breathing room and ask yourself “is this a fight I have to fight?”

I would firstly think of another plan instead of sending him to bed to deal with negative behaviours so he doesn't begin to associate his bed with punishment.

Secondly unless there is a massive drip feed of information I think you need to get it out of your head that he is so much harder than other toddlers and realise these are completely normal 2.5yo behaviours. They can't be patient and wait for things, they react instead of manage problems and they lash out when their feelings get too big to manage. It's our job as parents to help them through all these big feelings, not just punish them for having them.

Do you think you may still be suffering with your mental health? Do you get out frequently and get to socialise with other parents? I've got a 2.5yo too and it's often so exhausting but they're just finding their way in the world and you've got to dig deep into your reserves of energy and patience to help them along.

I remember attempting a 'time out' with my DD when she was that age and she just got up and carried on with her day.

I think it's ok to say stop or no when they are throwing something or hurting someone (or putting themselves in danger). But I don't really think there is much point telling them off for anything else at that age. They don't get it and you'd spend the whole day yelling.

My very very difficult 2yo DD who never, ever sat still, hit other children and barely ate a thing has turned into a thoughtful and funny little girl.

I think you have very high expectations. It doesn't sound like he did much wrong.

Distraction, a gentle ignore or reminder "I can't play right now, I have this bowl to put away. Perhaps you could help me tidy up" then pass him a dry cloth he can 'wipe' with.

Throwing the cars, I'd have removed the cars for a few minutes.

I agree with a lot that has been said and think you need support with this as you are blaming a toddler for normal toddler behaviour. Your labelling of him is very negative and you're already writing off his character.

Such a dickish reply. Parenting struggles are not the place for oneupmanship and thoughts of 'think it's bad now, just wait'. Just so self absorbed and unhelpful. We are all entitled to find things difficult and if you're struggling with your 14 year old you should make your own thread instead of bringing your completely irrelevant comparison to OPs.

Agree with what everyone has said here. It sounds like a normal toddler. My son is not quite 2yo and does all of these things.
He is at nursery 3 days a week and although I'm working it gives me a good break so when he is around I can 100% focus on him.
Throwing, I expain it could hurt someone and put it away give him something he can throw like a ball.
Cleaning up after the meal, I usually do this once he is in bed for his nap or evening. Or if I give him a little bit of pudding I can pop a few things in the dishwasher.
The drawer, he is just frustrated, sympathise and ask if he wants some help/show him how to do it.
We watched the Big Little Feelings course and found it really useful. I hadn't really considered things from his point of view.
I feel like having a young child is like trying to manage a really drunk person😅 keep calm and carry on.