Talk to me about childcare (outside of nursery hours)

[EmeraldAquaWildlings]

For context: my husband and I are moving our young family (children age 1 and 3) back to the UK after a long time of living abroad, so we are not familiar with the British childcare system and customs.

We’ve started to get our heads around the differences between Nursery/Reception and/or a childminder for the standard hours, but I’m beginning to think now about those “extra” hours. My husband and I will both be working full time, and we also want the ability to do the odd thing for ourselves (gym, haircut etc). From what I can understand, getting help with the school/nursery pickup and giving them dinner and keeping them entertained afterwards would mean we need either a childminder or a nanny, correct? Could someone give me a breakdown of what each of these options would look like, including rough prices too if possible :) also, I read somewhere that a nanny would essentially be employed by you so you are exposed to sick pay, maternity pay etc… can this be right? If something happens I can’t afford to pay them maternity/sick pay plus the cost for another nanny. If you go through some sort of agency can you get around this?

Thanks in advance for any info!

From what I can understand, getting help with the school/nursery pickup and giving them dinner and keeping them entertained afterwards would mean we need either a childminder or a nanny, correct?

When people are looking at childcare options for young children in the UK, they'll typically opt for either a nursery, a childminder (who looks after the child in their home with other children), or a nanny (who comes to your home and looks after just your child).

For some children who start pre school/school whose parents still require wraparound care that isn't available from the school, they may use the services of a childminder or nanny to provide this, but spaces are often few and far between as the nanny/childminder needs to make it financially viable for them, alongside the other children they potentially look after during the day and the ratios they need to maintain.

Could someone give me a breakdown of what each of these options would look like, including rough prices too if possible :)

It will vary so much from provider to provider and across different parts of the UK. Childminders are generally much cheaper than nannies and nurseries will fall somewhere in the middle of the two.

I read somewhere that a nanny would essentially be employed by you so you are exposed to sick pay, maternity pay etc… can this be right? If something happens I can’t afford to pay them maternity/sick pay plus the cost for another nanny. If you go through some sort of agency can you get around this?

No, you can't get around it. If you can't afford to accommodate those costs then you can't afford a nanny.

A nanny is the most expensive option and you would have to pay national insurance, sick pay etc. This is because you are their employer.

A childminder is self employed so they look after your kids and other people's as well. Most childminders in my area expect kids to be picked up by around 6pm so you might not have time for cinema trips etc. Maybe you could just get an evening babysitter for that sort of thing?

If you are after just occasional help, eg one one week you go out after work so can’t do pick up, the next weekend you get a haircut, none of the options you suggest will work. all of those (possibly with rare exceptions) are for regular hours.

What you need is a babysitter. Best found from word of mouth, and often a student/ child of a friend who you already know, or a member of staff from nursery ect who wants extra pay.

Essentially

I'm in South east/home counties

Day care nursery generally open all year round (not week of xmas) and open from 7.30/8am till 6pm. Usually includes food and nappies. Cost day rate but reliable as they have staff to cover AL etc. Sounds like it would suit you best. £70 to £80 day rate but discounted the more days you book.

Preschool/maintained nursery school/nursery classes are in a school. Free hours, school hours 9 till 3ish and term time only (38 weeks a year). Generally start term after they run 3 although some start aged 2.

Childminders avg cost £5 per hour. Some will operate like a preschool/school hours and others will be all year and do daycare hours. Risk are when they go on holiday you obvs will not have childcare.

Nanny you employ and are responsible for all costs. Tend to be in your home and often would do longer hours.

For children who are not yet at full time school there are day nurseries which usually open something like 8am - 6pm all year and will provide all means, space to nap etc. They tend to cost more than a childminder but less than a nanny.

Once children reach around 3 they can usually go to a pre-school. These may be linked to a primary school but not necessarily. They are usually a bit cheaper than a day nursery and can be offset by government funding if you’re eligible but they tend to be only open 9-3ish in school term time. They tend not to work for those who need full time, year round childcare unless they can find a childminder or nanny (or family) to do pick ups. For this reason many children stay in day nurseries until they start school.

Once at school, many schools offer before and after school clubs which you pay for. They are usually on the school site. Or there may be childminders who collect from the school and take children back to their own home. Or, as you say, you can employ a nanny to take the children back to your home.

For things like haircuts and the gym, most parents sort this kind of thing between them. They might ask family if they are local (but many don’t) or if they want to go out together in the evening they pay a babysitter. Usually a local teenager after a bit of extra cash but there are agencies too.

Costs for all of the above depend entirely on where you’ll be living. It’s also worth noting that there’s currently a huge shortage of childcare in parts of the UK so it’s worth looking early.

Re dinner. You'd need a Nanny (your home) or a Childminder (their home) who does dinner. Not all Childminders offer meals. I used to be one and I asked that parents provided lunches and I closed at 5pm as I have my own children and a later finish didn't work for us. My youngest now goes to a Chimdminder, I provide lunch. The Chimdminder closes later at 6pm but still doesn't offer dinner. She does do light afternoon snack of fruit/veg.

Depending on the area you move to your LA should have a website where you can search for Childcare options. If you sign up to Childcare.co.uk you can have a look on there at different providers and what they offer. It varies so much, its not really a question that can be answered with specifics on a forum. In my area (South East Midlands) the going rate for a Childminder is £4-5.50/hour per child. Further north its less and in London it's more. I think you're better off looking at Childminders and then separate babysitters.

Government pays Statutory Maternity Pay, but can take a while to claim. As the employer you do pay employers NI but there is a threshold, so it may not be as much as you might expect... use a PaYE calculator to get an estimate, based on how much you would be paying in salary. Sick pay is sometime employers pay, but there are rules around that, such as first three days in a sickness period are unpaid (employer can choose to pay). Some nannies never seem to get sick... they just keep going regardless.

Cost wise, I am currently looking at a nanny job in Surrey, which is term time only, about 17 hours per week, which I calculate is likely to cost the employer around £11,000 a year.

We have a childminder it's £35 from 7:30-5:30 and then wraparound is £7.50 from 7:30am to 9 and then another £7.50 from 3:30-5:30 and the contract states £15 per day so the childminder charges per day so she's not out of pocket wasting spaces for just before school then not having anyone afterwards
School holidays is expensive as it's £35 per day per child

The nurseries round here (birth to 4) are about £50 a day

Once they're 3 and you earn over I think it's about £150 a week then you qualify for 30 free hours

Before then there's the tax free childcare scheme which I use which saves me 20% on childcare

www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare

In terms of evenings and weekends traditional nurseries and childminders are not an option for evenings and weekends although some nursery staff may provide a babysitting service to earn extra money.

Our kids are 3 and 6 and we hardly ever go out Both at the same time but id never pay for childcare to go to the hairdressers I have a mobile lady who comes same for nails and waxing it's just easier.

There are local teenagers who will babysit but we've never bothered plus I don't want teenagers in my house!! And we don't use a nursery as the childminder was a cheaper option so my kids don't know any nursery staff who do this.

A school mum (her and partner are
Both senior doctors/ consultants) has a nanny her salary is £25,000 a year, she lives in and if not it would be nearer £30,000 a year. She works 7:30-6 Monday to Friday, evenings and weekends are her own time and overtime is paid at double pay by arrangement if they want her on a weekend but she often goes to her hometown (like when they take her on holiday with them etc it's
Basically 24/7 - no holiday for the nanny!!)
She also has private healthcare and a gym membership as part of her package
As she takes the kids swimming to the gym
You'd be, as people say responsible for sick pay, holiday pay, maternity leave, pension contributions and any reasonable expenses - the nanny also has a car to ferry the kids about etc

• my friends nanny gets 6 weeks holiday a year and my childminder covers this for them unless they take

Leave at the same time

School (Reception onwards) starts from the school year they turn 5. So September born children start as they turn 5, and July born children start age 4.

Lots of schools, but not all, have preschool and after school clubs - these are usually cheaper than nursery or childminder I think. But some schools don’t offer it and in some places they’re hugely oversubscribed.

There are “nurseries” attached to schools, and “preschools” which start from age 3 ish, I think, but they run to a school timetable and aren’t suitable for full time childcare.

Then as you say, there are full time private nurseries, nannies and childminders. These provide childcare for the full working day all year round. Nannies are as described above by others. Definitely the most expensive option.

In my experience, childminders are about the same price as nurseries. Childminders are fully qualified and registered. They look after a limited number of children in the childminders home. Typically you’d need to take your children there in the morning and pick them up in the evening. Some childminders also pick up and drop off older children at school, and do the pre and post school care with them. Dinner etc.

They often only do pick up and drop off at one school as it’s logistically hard to do otherwise.

We used a childminder for years and it’s great as we dropped both children there in the morning, and when our older one started going to school she’d take him, and have the younger one all day with others, then collect him and others at the end of the day. So we only had one place to pick up and collect from, and our children spent time together as well.

Childminders are more limited for spaces with younger children, so I would advise a lot of asking around and research if you are looking for spaces for two full time children in the age 1-3 category.

many childcare settings are very very booked up - people often put their names down many months in advance - so you should start finding out availability as early as possible.

www.childcare.co.uk/costs/

You can plug in postcodes here and get approx guide costs for your area. Where I am it’s £5.5 - £6 per hour for childminders and nurseries. Full time childcare costs were more than our mortgage by a long way for a few years.

good luck!

Probably not very helpful for you but me and my partner basically work the opposite of each other. I work 4-5 days per week and he works 5 nights per week. The timings of our shifts means that we've managed just to have our children in nursery 8-13:30 x 2 a week. This is the only way we could afford it. It means we only have half days at home together but until our children are older it is what it is

Oh and to add - childminders all do things a bit differently to each other. They’re self employed, and they get to choose if they want to offer dinner, breakfast, school runs, nappies, how to manage holiday pay etc. There isn’t one single “here’s how childminders work” rule. They are all held to the same training and regulations, but what they offer is personal to them. Some accommodate longer or different hours, others don’t. Entirely down to them.

Nurseries are open usually c.730-6
its rare people hire additional help around those hours. My husband and me go to the gym but not at the same time, hence the other parent is with the kids.

Once in school they have breakfast and after school clubs- or you can get a childminder.

Also nobody has mentioned the school holidays which are almost half the year. We have a nanny and pay additional hours in the term that we dont use, so that she is retained for the holidays. In term time you actually need like 12-15h per week and in hols up to 50! It's a fucking nightmare and continues to be hugely expensive unless you have family or just don't work yourself.

I couldn't be any more angry about the whole pointless setup!

Thanks all for the good info so far! Regarding the nanny option, do they generally have to be full-time, or can you get a nanny for, say, 4 hours at the end of the day?

All childcare round here stops t 5.30-6, whether nursery, childminder or after school club so that early evening slot if you have meetings after work or a long commute is just really tricky I'm afraid (unless you negotiate hours with a nanny - no experience of them as too expensive for us).

If you’re just looking for 4 hours at the end of the day you’re better looking for schools with an after school club, or a childminder who can collect your children from school and look after them in their home. Looking for a school with wrap around care was a big factor in my school search.

For babysitting in the evening eg if I want to go out to the cinema, I use the Bubble app sometimes to find local babysitters. Each babysitter charges their own rate but in my area it’s about £10 an hour plus Bubble’s arrangement fee of £6.

Afterschool nannies are like gold dust. Obviously because it's such a part time job and would likely stop them getting a proper job

I think you need to lower your expectations a bit. Working ft and getting time out regularly to do your own thing ? When will you parents see your kids? Who will take them to activities ? When will you cover school work? Reading, lunch making, house jobs?. There is a lot of admin stuff to consider when kids start school plus hours are so short vs nursery and kids are EXHAUSTED especially for the first year so long days with extra childcare are hard though not impossible

I think extra curricular stuff for the parents is usually tag teamed with the other parent . Get babysitting for occasional nights out.

I've used nurseries, had nannies and use wrap around care now. It's a long expensive road !

@EmeraldAquaWildlings what are your working hours? Do you both do shift work? Finding formal childcare after 6pm can be difficult

summed it up perfectly.
you want your pre kid evenings- not going to happen, well it could but what’s the point of being a parent- tag team

I was afraid of this. I’m afraid to say that parenthood has been tough on both my husband and I, we are both struggling with a sense of self, which was a big reason for deciding to move back to the UK. I am desperately trying to come up with a solution where we can regain just a small part of our lives, so that we can feel like ourselves again. But I guess it isn’t to be!

You're in the most difficult stage right now (mine are even younger so I sympathise) but it's not forever. Take it in turns with your husband so you both get some "me time". Book the occasional evening babysitter so you can both go out

the tip is to get your kids into a good routine.
my kids eat at 5pm, bath at 6pm bed at 7.30pm- we wfh some days, so I can gym at 5pm and husband goes at 6.30pm. Today I’ll take the kids out at 10- husband has 2hrs alone, then when I come back the youngest has a nap, the eldest does homework with husband whilst I go gym- Friday night I went for dinner with friends at 7.30pm

Well, if you basically want someone to look after your kids anytime they're out of nursery it is going to cost quite a lot! Even a live in nanny would still be entitled to time off, holidays etc.

If you just want the occasional evening for cinema etc then find a reliable babysitter.

You’re right in the middle of a very very tough bit. Hang on in there, keep talking and being kind to each other. It does get easier in time.

what also helped for us was going slightly part time. It was like a pressure release valve. DH did it first then me a few years later. But I appreciate not everyone can do this! We did “downgrade” our house expectations etc to be able to manage this.

You won’t be able to get a nanny to do after school hours only. What would she do the rest of the day? It wouldn’t be viable

one other option, at least in London, might be an au pair. Suitable if you have slightly older children they live in with you, do school runs and some “light childcare”duties especially after school. However they typically came from EU countries partly to improve their English and these days i don’t believe there is an easy visa route for them so far less of them. They’re paid much less than the other options but you have to give them bed and board.
And mostly they won’t have childcare qualifications.