Sad & confused re: breastfeeding

[sjxoxo]

I have just had first baby, about 16 weeks ago; started breastfeeding and we did the first month ebf, using nipple shields which were given out in the maternity and also I was given some by my MIL when pregnant. I, very naively, just started using them and carried on. I knew nothing about their downsides and no advice was given… my MIL is a lactation expert aswell.

At 4 weeks I was told he wasn’t gaining much weight and to add formula top ups- I did. At this time we also had the most horrendous thrush which literally hurt me so so much it was as bad as a contraction no joke. I was so depressed over this weekend that I had to add bottle feeds and just felt so so stressed that he had maybe been hungry 😞 at this time I had my DH here but no other family really or mum here to help.

So he has been combi fed and growing well ,until, fast forward to 3 weeks ago (baby boy about 12.2 weeks) he just starts refusing to breastfeed. Cries, looks away, goes stiff… just will not latch. I can then usually offer bottle and he will take it willingly.

i have seen two lactation consultant’s neither of whom have helped and have no real advice other than “it’s just what he wants at the moment.” I have been pumping to keep supply, and he is still breast feeding although very briefly in the morning first thing for 5-10 mins, and most nights before bed. Tonight I’ve just put him down after no feed as he was just refusing it completely. My MIL is telling me to start weaning with baby cereal etc as he’s ‘clearly not satisfied’ and ‘your milk will probably dry up soon on its own’. She thinks I’m absolutely wasting my time pumping and he is telling me he’s had enough by his behaviour. He is a very big baby, over the 100th centile length & 97th for weight, so this is not really a concerned about his weight post.

Does anyone have ANY advice or success stories of babies who go on a (semi/almost complete) nursing strike for this long?? It’s been over 2 weeks now and it’s killing me- physically from the pumping, and mentally…

I know of course he’s only a bub but I feel so so sad he doesn’t want my means of feeding him. On a side note to this, I feel so let down… I feel let down by my mum who hasn’t been here to support me, let down by my MIL who I feel led me up the garden path with nipple shields in the first place, and stressed by the input she is now having and her comments. I’m struggling through but feel so alone in this situation. My DH is supportive but working so the feeding etc is really for me to grapple with. I don’t want it to be the end of breastfeeding for us but I just don’t know what to do. I’ve followed all the advice and online resources but he just constantly refuses me.

thanks for reading xox

Are you confident taking him in the bath with you for a feed?

Warm bath, radiator on so the air is warm too, so it's more about comfort feeding than the ease of getting milk easily out of a bottle?

You are snugglier than plastic and also he might be picking up on your stress, so sonething that relaxes you too might help?

Try phoning La Leche League for a consult or the breastfeeding advice line

One thing that helped my babies nursing strike was plenty of skin to skin and nipple near mouth with no obligation to feed

I also totally cut out formula and only gave expressed milk in bottle until nursing resumed (then stopped bottle all together)

We are now still breastfeeding at 9 months

I hope it all goes well for you <3

What a stressful situation with MIL’s ‘expert’ advice. Clearly your baby is not ready for solids and has not ‘had enough’ of your milk which is literally tailored to his specific needs; he is 3 months old!

What it sounds like you’re going through is bottle preference. And the more bottles you give (good on you for pumping btw, that’s hard work but you ensure that baby is getting the good stuff), the less contact he has with the breast, and it can become a bit of a vicious circle.

I echo PP - lots of time at the breast, give him the option. Snuggle him. Feed in the dark with white noise l. Feed him when he is sleepy just waking up from a nap and before naps. Expressing a little milk on your nipple so he can smell it can sometimes tempt them back on, too.

Are you still on the shields? Some advice from a an IBCLC would be helpful here to get you off them if so. You can even get an e-consult with one of the ‘celebrity’ IBCLCs like Lucy Ruddle or Lucy Webber.

Wishing you the best of luck. You’ve done a fab job 💕

Hi, I'm so sorry this has happened. You've already had some fab advice above (unlike your truly useless mil) but I wanted to add a couple of points:

-Firstly, it is really possible to phase out bottles and increase to ebf. I started out combi feeding, even 70% formula and 30% BF due to being very ill after birth. It took me about 4 months to increase to nearly EBF (only a vary occasional bottle). It wasn't much effort at all, I just latched constantly.

-Loads of cuddles, loads of latching. Basically whenever your baby is awake, pop him on the breast. Feed him to sleep. Try side-lying and dangle feeding on the bed (google for diagrams if you've never tried this). He's too young for co-sleeping, but you can lie next to him in your bed for some of his naps.

-I would lose the nipple shields - there might be slight pain/discomfort sometimes as your nipples won't have desensitised as much as they would have done. If it's just "ooh that's slightly pinchy" at brief intervals, that's fairly normal imo. If it's unbearable or you are bleeding, it's not normal and you'll need to work on the latch.

-Also, I would stop pumping. Every moment you are pumping is a moment you could be latching on (sorry that sounds so bossy lol but it's the only way to do it).

-Forget housework. Your mil ought to do some to make up for the harm she nearly did to your son, telling you to put him on solids Ffs, I can't believe she calls herself a lactation consultant, what a dreamer. Or get your DH to take some time off work, or get extra housekeeping help if you can afford it temporarily

-join your local la leche league group on Facebook

-your son is crying because that's what babies do. He's not sending a signal about wanting to stop breastfeeding. Babies never want to stop breastfeeding- I think I read that truly natural weaning happens around 4 years old (eeep!) My dd is still a BF addict and she's stuck to me now even though I need to get ready for work! Nb she was on mostly formula to begin with like I said.

You can do it!

Ps I'm really sorry I just reread and you got two lactation consultants and they sound as useless as your mil! Makes me want to be a lactation consultant myself, I'm really passionate about helping mums with BF! La leche league Facebook group and a couple of helpful breastfeeding-diagram books helped me the most, let me know if you'd like the book recommendations

Ps (again) my dd used to cry a lot when I trued to feed her in certain positions which she was finding uncomfortable, so it could well be that as well. So side lying and dangle feeding always stopped the crying, hopefully they'll work for you too

Stop talking to MIL about it, you'll feel better already! Rubbish advice re weaning.

At that age they start to get more distracted and interested in the world. I started feeding more in the same spot, somewhere darkish, cosy, with less going on around us. Try ditching the shields and see if that helps too. In England we have local infant feeding teams (not sure how it works in the rest of the UK) - have you seen yours if applicable? Mine honestly were amazing and helped at various points (helped to diagnose silent reflux at 4 months for us) so not just for newborns.

This happened to me with DD1 and I just went with the bottle. Really regretted it though! It coincided with switching to the next level teat on the bottles and I'm sure it was just that the milk was coming out with a lot less effort from the bottle then. Could you go back to newborn teats?

Fussy behaviour at the breast is common around 12 weeks ish regardless of mode of feeding. So this may not have anything to do with the bottle tbh. That is exactly when I stopped breastfeeding my combi fed eldest child for the same reason. However my second child was displaying the same behaviours around the same age and he was almost EBF. The local breastfeeding peer supporters shared some online info from lactation consultants explaining around say 8-12 weeks is a normal fussy feeding time as babies discover their hands and the world around them. So with DC2 I just persevered basically. If he refused the breast I would put it away and try again in half an hour and repeat. He would take it eventually really. I also found that movement would get him to take it so would often feed whilst rocking him in the rocking chair or whilst walking around. The phase did pass. Also I wouldn't worry too much about feeds being 5-10 mins, by 12 weeks that can be a totally normal length of feed. By about 4 months my DS only fed for about 5 mins at a time. Now at 6m he tends to feed 3-5 mins both sides for one feed.

Oh. My boy was an absolute nightmare. Similar story- used shields, weight gain slow, switched to expressing and 1-2 v short bf a day. He did always latch, but didn't drink much. I kept trying... Eventually he got big enough I guess to be able to latch without the shield. Now he's a bottle refuser instead!

Your milk is enough. If you can stand it, keep pumping, your supply will hopefully be ok. I expressed for every feed, including at night. Brutal but worth it.

We did mixed feeding (expressed and breast) and used a special needs test do DD had to actively suckle on the bottle. Even slow flow tests can cause a bit of flow and babies grow to like the easier ‘bottle’ option. I think the brand we used was Medela.

I would also recommend having a glass of wine during the evening feed. It will make you feel more human and relaxed.

If you have deep tissue thrush a paracetamol 30 minutes before feeding also helps.

good luck, and enjoy that wine tonight.

Al the pp have great advice. Just wanted to add - have you checked your baby's mouth for thrush? Mine stopped feeding, yelling at each feed after the first bit. Turned out he had thrush - it hurt him to feed. Just worth ruling out.

Good luck, op. You're doing amazingly.

No help I'm afraid, but my greatest sympathy. I was in a similar situation Combi feeding and was very unsupported and ultimately switched to bottle feeding. I don't regret that because I had to do what worked at that time but equally I do feel sad and angry looking back that I wasn't better supported. I felt like everyone was pro breastfeeding, then suddenly the moment theres a difficulty it's talk about 'top ups' or giving them a dummy or whatever, and next thing you know you've crossed an invisible line and baby won't breastfeed anymore and nobody will support you.

Absolutely do not give cereals though

Your MIL is an idiot. 12 week old babies don’t eat solid food. In my experience when you supplement with formula it’s the beginning of the end - a baby who gets formula will be sucking on you less so your supply will decrease. I was told to supplement with formula and I completely ignored them and just breastfed even more - and I continued feeding for three years.

That's very strange advice from you MIL as a lactation expert. Does she advise other women as a job/volunteer?

I don't have much to add to the great advice you've had from PPs. The rugby position and dangle feeding worked well with my DCs.

Your DS is still too little for cereal. Yes, it will make him settle/sleepy but its because he is stuffed rather than being satisfied with the nutrition he needs.

I hope you are able to get him back on to BF but try not to put too much pressure on yourself and DS. Happy and healthy mum and baby is the most important thing.

wow Thankyou everyone for all your replies ❤️ I wasn’t expecting so many! Today has been a mildly better day and he has fed twice during the day! Which he hasn’t done for weeks.

ive thought so so long and hard about all the variables that could be playing a part - the position, the latch, the supply, the timing, the bottle teats..
in the morning first thing he does side feed, but he won’t accept the nipple in any position at all through the day.. I have stuck to newborn teats on the bottle to minimise the ‘easiness’ of it for him in comparison to the nipple; looking back now I’m very glad I did this or I think we’d be game over completely.

I should have clarified - my MIL is retired but still does give advice when asked, (not just to me!) I try and keep her at arms length as I find her comments really toxic for me mentally during this time to be honest. I shit myself all pregnancy she would interfere once he was born and I was right but try hard to keep her at a distance without upsetting her - v hard and I find her remarks really cutting. I had an ok birth but did have an emergency c sec and I think I was in such a state of stress during the first couple of months; when they said I should start adding formula and he was losing weight I panicked and became a bit obsessed with feeding/breastfeeding and have felt ever since that I am scrambling to ‘save’ my milk by pumping. On some level It’s been successful as I still have milk and we are still managing some breastfeeding although I fear i don’t have enough milk to feed him 100%. To some degree I still feel some stress around this as I know when my MIL makes comments they go off like bombs in my head and I can’t forget them even weeks after she’s said them.

one thing that I don’t understand with breastfeeding is this - lots of people saying ‘just feed on the breast and don’t offer the bottle, he’ll pick it back up’ - if I do this surely he will be hungry at least initially? This is a fear of mine and why I haven’t gone cold Turkey on the formula. When they said he needed top ups, I came home and sobbed my heart out as I felt he had cried as a newborn maybe out of extreme hunger. It still stings me now!! My DH is convinced that’s not the case but the thought haunts me, coupled with my MILs comments it’s a bit traumatic to be honest although I know that sounds like an overreaction.

the other thing which upset me these last few days was we had my MIL here; when I was pregnant like I mentioned she bought me 2 sets of nipple shields; (I had 3 in total) and a thingy for catching let down - when she was here recently I said I didn’t want a bottle rack she’d bought me as I already had one, and I hadn’t used the let down / drips catcher she bought me, she seemed slightly offended and took it back to give to someone else she knew who was having a baby. She then took the two sets of nipple shields aswell to pass on. It’s a small thing but those got me through those dark times when I felt so alone trying to feed my baby and it felt like when I still needed help and support she was taking away my comfort blanket, even though I am not using them much now it still felt like she took back a present which was my crutch!

i will try and see if I can find a support group here - I think the hospital that I gave birth at has one.

thanks all for your kind & reassuring words xxxxx

OP it seems like your MIL wants to be helpful but on her own terms. Don't be afraid to follow your own instincts and go your own way. Just so I'm clear - are you breastfeeding for every feed and then topping up with the bottle or have you got some solely breastfeeds and some solely bottle feeds?

@KatieKat88 I have some breastfeeds - typically 2 a day maybe 3 if he’s feeling cooperative, and then bottles.
i do try and offer the breast before a bottle but he refuses 98% of the time.

my gut instinct is his behaviour- stiffening up, crying, turning the other way - Is due to a bit of low supply (he’s a big gobbly boy!), and laziness - I think the bottle is a quicker easier route to full tum. x

Any signs of silent reflux? Like arching his back? DD initially seemed better with bottle feeds (until it got worse) - I think because she was fed more upright with bottles.

@KatieKat88 I did wonder silent reflux as he was a bit spewwy around 4 weeks - not enough to worry about but I did wonder. I did actually go to the GP about it but they didn’t see the need for any treatment as he was gaining weight well (he was combi fed by this point, and his weight gain at worst only ever slowed right down never ‘dropped’ ie lost weight); so she wouldn’t give me anything. I then bought him some baby gaviscon which he has had a few times but I didn’t see much difference… I never gave it consistently for 2/3 days but I have given it to him maybe 4/5 times and not noticed much change.

I recommend breast after bottle. Give a small amount of the bottle to take the edge off his hunger. Then latch on.

This is the technique that helped us wean off bottles (not even deliberately, my dd just started to want the bf more and more and we had to give away lots of formula in the end)

I had to top my first up a lot but we did then stop all the top ups.
I did loads of skin to skin, in the bath is great, when your chilled out watching tv on the sofa. My second who’s nearly 2 still loves feeding with skin to skin.
I was told to offer the breast first and whenever they were hungry and only offer formula every 3 hours after a feed. When it came to dropping formula feeds I just stopped one at a time. So bf and top up first thing. Then missed the next formula feed. It’ll be a drag for a few days because the baby will bf a bit, then 10 mins later want more then more 20 mins later etc but go with it. Might take a week to drop a formula feed or longer but it does work. The most important thing is not to stress about it.

Get yourself trained!!! Start with a peer supporter course, then do breastfeeding counsellor / breastfeeding supporter / LLLL (depending on who you train with) and see where it takes you.

Sounds like a bit of bottle preference going on here. How about calling the National Breastfeeding Helpline on 0300 100 0212 and talking to a properly trained expert for free? They're open until 9.30pm every night.

You know, i just might check this out! Thank you!