I can't cope with my two year old at bedtime

[Robosled22]

My son is about to turn two. I have a daughter that is about to turn five. We try to do a routine for them every night, and my son rejects this routine consistently. When we go to brush his teeth, he screams and scratches and you have to physically restrain him to get his teeth brushed.

Then with bed, he will stand up, take his sleeping bag off and climb out of his cot. He's done this up to maybe 25 times before, finding it funny to struggle and wriggle and kick you whilst me and my partner are getting more and more livid each time.

He still wakes up in the night probably 3 or 4 times a week, and it doesn't matter when he goes to bed, he's up at the crack of dawn. 5:45 this morning after going to bed late yesterday evening. Sometimes as early as 4:40am.

By the time bedtime rolls around he's been tired and cranky for hours. Doesn't matter, it's so rare for him to just sleep.

He is a difficult toddler most of the time regardless. He climbs everything and it's like he enjoys seeing us get angry. We are both sleep deprived and DONE.

I have been getting so angry at him recently that when he starts mucking around at bedtime, I have taken to shouting at him and slapping his hand because it's the only thing that he responds to.

I cannot do all of the gentle mamby Pamby stuff 20 or 30 times. It does not work with him. I could rock him to sleep for half an hour and he'd get up and run around and jump out of bed. My daughter wasn't this bad when she had to sleep, and she was sleeping through til normal times from 3 months old. At 18 months he started to sleep through for a few weeks and then it went back to waking up crying at least once a night.

I cannot handle it any more. My daughter isn't perfect but my son is an awful, awful child to deal with at bedtime and mealtimes, as he refuses to eat about 90% of what we give him.

I can't cope any more, and have even found myself wishing we never had him. I absolutely love him, but he is too much effort, and is ruining our lives.

One of the problems is that however active his day is, he still gets up too early. He could be out running around for the whole day, have a good nap in the middle and still wake up at 5 the next morning.

It's difficult to get him out because he is so inquisitive and wants to run away. Also, my partner has terrible anxiety and won't leave the house willingly. I work full time and don't really get any quality time to myself, so evenings are child care followed by something boring and quiet because he's a light sleeper, weekends are for the kids.

I cannot carve out any time to be me. I am absolutely sick of just being a provider to everybody, when it feels like no one is providing for me. This has gone off on a tangent, but basically I am stressed and have no good options in front of me. I don't want to slap my son or get angry any more, but I can't help myself. I want to be able to put him down and have him go to sleep and not create a massive drama every night. What can I do?

These aren’t absolutely mental. These are sensible suggestions to help you with what sounds like fairly normal toddler behaviour. My 2 yr old does all the same things as yours. I agree it’s hard. I do get frustrated with him when he runs away from getting his pyjamas on, when he wriggles away from his nappy again and again, but he’s a cheeky toddler. I think long and hard about how to get him brushing his teeth because he doesn’t want to and I can’t pin him down and forcibly stick the toothbrush in his mouth. It’s hard but I expect it! I think your issue is that you are dealing with this on top of full time work and not getting much support from your partner. Whilst this is not your fault, it’s also not your 2 yr old child’s fault. So borderline hating him or hitting him is not justified by the behaviour you describe. The behaviour is frustrating but normal, the expectation that you deal with all this on your own whilst working full time is not. I know people do it - I’m just saying those people have a harder life, which to me would feel unfair. Your child needs someone who will leave the house with him, be patient with him and love him when they are being difficult. I know your partner’s mental health issues are no-one’s fault and I admire you for stepping up in what must be a difficult situation for you. But you lose my sympathy when you refer to namby pamby strategies. I’m sorry that your child isn’t going to just be a robot and pop into his bedtime box when you need him to. Newsflash, women have been doing this shit for centuries. It’s important, hard, skilful work. It takes time, effort and dedication. People have put time and thought into trying to work out what works well and you’re willing to reject that in a minute. Most women seriously consider different strategies to help their children, rather than preemptively writing everything off as namby pamby or a joke. It’s called carrying the mental load. It’s called nurturing.

You might call me ‘mental’ for letting my 3 year old get in bed with me in the middle of the night… I might be, but I’m also well rested, calm and don’t hit my child.

Ok so I hadn't seen your latest post when I posted...

You sound like you're under a lot of stress and looking for a cause outside of yourself. The fact you are lashing out at posters here after asking for advice suggests you're really struggling.
Have you spoken to your partner about how you are feeling? Do you share bedtimes with your partner so you each get a break?

My DP gets himself very stressed and understandably so (for various reasons, irrelevant here). Having our son acting up around him is a massive trigger and when he feels overwhelmed he will react angrily or just shutdown. I recognise this and am fortunate to be able to handle my son's behaviour from a different angle as I'm mostly less stressed. If the family is fortunate enough to have two parents, those parents really need to be able to work together on a solution. Previous posters have suggested help with your mental health and I think it would do the world of good for your family. Good luck with it all.

Toddlers are hard. I would suggest getting rid of the cot. He can climb out and that’s dangerous best to get a bed and make a big deal of having a big boy bed and big boys stay in bed. I have a recently turned 3 year old and the bedtime game changer for us has been a yoto. Similar to a tonies player but it has a nightlight function. I put bedtime stories or lullabies on to send her to sleep (and stop the constant getting out of bed as she is distracted) but also I have it set on a red light at night time and turn to a green light at 7am which is when she can come through to my room. We used red and green as she understood the traffic light concept from an early age with green meaning go and red meaning stop.
I have also seen reward charts work well for some kids staying in bed with the promise of something they really want after so many stickers or something.

Personally I think it strange that you'd rather shout and hit your child because you're at the end of your tether, than let him in your bed or take "namby pamby" advice.

You're aware that you have anger issues and know the impact of hitting your kids yet you're doing it. I would address that first otherwise this sleep issue will be the least of your worries.

Two year olds are seriously hard work. It does pass and it should get easier.
But, what you're doing isn't working for any of you.
Is your partner seeking help for her anxiety? If not, she needs to see her GP.
Don't fight over the teeth brushing. Do they want to do it themselves? Toddlers can really fight for every scrap of independence.
Maybe let them do it and then help them to finish.
Time to ditch the cot and grow bag. Put a baby gate on the bedroom door.
Keep calm, talk to your baby and clearly signpost what happens next. Don't react to bad behaviour, just keep retrieving him calmly and only react positively to the behaviour you want to see. It's not namby Pamby, it's a more subtle way to cultivate better behaviour. Kids crave attention, any attention, so reward the behaviour you want to see with lots of praise to reinforce it

I found this book helpful and when I managed to get my temper under control, my sons behaviour changed for the better. How to Stop Losing Your Sh*t with Your Kids: Effective strategies for stressed out parents www.amazon.co.uk/dp/147368692X/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_8QX3WE8MMD7FRE09BATP?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

You sound utterly exhausted, both in terms of sleep deprivation and in terms of the stress you're carrying.

But the person you are lashing out at is your helpless baby, who loves you more than anyone else in the world and not only are you hurting and frightening him, you're telling yourself a whole damaging story about how it's his fault, how he's awful and difficult and whatever. Yes some children are more convenient than others. Yes some need more from us. But you're the parent, you suck it up.

I'm a namby pamby bedsharing kind of 'mental' mum. And I'm a single parent of two, neither great sleepers in their early years, one quite needy both day and night. I have combined horrible bedtimes for two children with a demanding full time job and no support. I know it's impossible. I also know you need to find a way to incorporate some self-care somewhere, so that you stop taking it out on your helpless child. This is your priority, not looking for a non-mental magic bullet. You need to cope with the kids you've got, not berate them for not being the kids you wished for.

Slapping a baby’s hand because he doesn’t comply with your bedtime rules….what an awful child (your words)…

I've been there with a child like that. It's fucking exhausting.
It got better by the way. Now child is 9 it's worse again 😂😂

HOWEVER slapping a nearly 2yo? It's fucking disgusting behaviour..

You need space and help now.

Imagine freely admitting you shout at and slap your baby (because that’s what he is, a baby) before being rude and aggressive to people who spend time giving you advice and kindly anecdotes. Unbelievable.

My boy hated sleep. Hated bedtime. Hated PJs and teeth brushing. We had the same kind of disagreements about it all, especially around age 2. I would sit in his room for hours with him till he was ready. He's 5 now and still needs one of us to snuggle him to sleep, which takes between 10 minutes and an hour usually and there's still faffing sometimes but it's him winding down. I won't say I don't ever get cross, because I do. When he tries to hit me I gently stop his hand and tell him I won't let him hit me/hurt me. We don't hurt people we love. I have always stayed in the room with him because I don't want to teach him that I will ignore his 'ugly' emotions by leaving when he's clearly distressed. It's hard work.

Definitely time to get a bed and a duvet. Give him some ownership of what type of cover he has, let him help build the bed/take down the cot. We watch a cocomelon or some other such awful thing while brushing my boy's teeth, and an electric toothbrush really helps. His routine is a bath/shower, then a cbeebies bedtime story on the tv with a bit of supper, then teeth brushing, toilet and into bed for some books and then a song on to help him drop off. It took some adjustments before we finally found a routine that really worked for us.

I would also suggest that he is either over tired before you start bedtime, or under tired and just not ready. If you think he may be under tired, you could try pushing the bedtime back half an hour or an hour before you start so that it's not taking him so long to drop off. Then as the routine gets more firmly ingrained, you can slowly bring it forward to a time that suits you better as you've taught him a good falling asleep routine.

My son has always been allowed to come into bed with us, or I will go in with him if he needs reassurance in the night. He's only little and we as adults aren't expected to sleep alone.

I'm really sorry that you have got to this point, you sound utterly miserable and frustrated. Unfortunately that frustration won't be helping the situation for anyone. I really hope that you can find some support as it sounds like you need it, and to reiterate what other posters have said, and what I think you already know, please stop slapping your baby's hand - he won't understand and teaching him that it's not ok to hurt someone, by hurting them, is so counter-productive.

I think, if you look at the OP compassionately @Gettissuesgotissues , it’s screamingly obvious that she’s at the end of her rope and that there is stress on her from everyone in her family. She’s supporting and carrying them all. Can’t pour from an empty cup and all that.

So many posters are struggling to see what is actually happening here. Or they’re choosing not to so they have an excuse to post harsh criticism to feel, what, superior? For amusement? No idea.

To me, the OP is a woman with a heavy, heavy burden. She’s desperate for sleep to be sorted so that she feels just slightly able to cope with what’s on her plate.

@Herejustforthisone the op says he's a man actually so I'm not sure you've read all his posts?

Op, you sound scary. Kids act up when they don't feel secure. Your ds's "sleep routine" has started with you wrestling a toothbrush into his mouth. He's flooded with adrenaline and he's in fight or flight mode. It's just not going to induce sleep is it? Then you and your anxious partner (sorry, I would also be anxious if my husband was as easily angered as you) both start losing your temper with him, shouting and slapping him. Would you fall asleep under these circumstances?!

I wonder why you've come here for advice just to dismiss it all?

I don't want to turn into my horrible parents so I make a full effort not to do so. I have only just started slapping his hand because I don't know what else to do. I don't enjoy it, and I don't want to continue doing it, but if you were in my situation I think you'd be doing the same or very very close to it.

Nope, no we wouldn't.

And you sound just like my uncle who beat his kids. Every child-beating dad thinks they're not like other child beating dads - I don't enjoy doing it - if you were in my situation you'd do it too - my son is just awful, he makes me do it

No. Just no. Stop hitting your son. Stop shouting at your son. Stop forcing a toothbrush in his mouth.

If you can't trust yourself to keep your temper, don't get involved I'm his bedtime routine at all. Your partner can do it without you

I think it’s a bit rich to accuse others of not knowing what’s going on when it’s clear you haven’t even read the OP’s posts.

I don’t think the toddler is what’s causing this, your life is totally out of control in all the other areas and this is what you’re seizing on because it’s something you think will transform your life if it changes

to a point yes, but your partner isn’t helping you here. What is she doing to treat this anxiety? What are you doing to (gently) make her face it?

anxiety increases it’s grip if unchallenged

she needs to get out of the house and face her fears

I say this as a former agoraphobic, and one with a partner who also developed anxiety at a point in his life due to traumatic relationships before me. We’re on the path to fixing it, and bizarrely the pandemic helped me shed my anxiety

you’re overwhelmed, your partner needs to step up to alleviate some of this

when you feel you’re getting worked up, step away, let her take over and tag team until the job is done

anger is attention, so don’t engage, “time for bed” and calm voice

supernanny did a programme about this kind of thing

Hitting a baby you’re 6 times bigger than, who relies on you to keep him safe, as a grown man is diabolical. Your thread should be about how to not hit your baby, does your wife allow you to hit the baby or do you hide it?

Firstly, please don't hit your son ever again. In no circumstances. I grew up being hit by my father and it caused me no end of issues which I have only really got over in my 30s. If you stop now it won't have an effect on him, and it's frighteningly easy for parents to escalate physical punishment of their children.

I am a dad with a son of similar age, and when it comes to bedtime difficulties these are what have helped me:

• For toothbrushing, encouraging him to open and close his mouth to make funny sounds with the toothbrush
• Taking the bedtime in turns with my wife so one of us isn't having a run of days getting wound up at bedtime
• Depending on the temperament of your son, maybe try encouraging him to put one of his soft toys to bed first? My son loves this and it seems to calm him down
• I'd also swap the sleeping bag for a quilt if he keeps trying to take it off

But above all, I really think you need to seek some professional help for how you're reacting in this situation. Your son (and your daughter) will be picking up on your vibes and it will be stressing him out even more. Good luck, I really hope you can change things here.

And I think you need to risk an argument with your partner to get her to seek help for her own anxiety and for her to start sharing a bit of the load. If everything's down to you that's not sustainable

Beautifully put 👏

Haven't rtft but some of these answers are absolutely ridiculous. Slapping a child's hand is not "hitting a child". Exaggerating much ? My parents slapped me when I went too far and while I have a lot of things I blame on them, this isn't one of them.

And I don't think this is "normal 2 year old behaviour" either. I have a 2yo and a 3yo and neither of them have ever behaved like this, nor have any of the other toddlers I know. Not even the difficult ones who still wake up through the night.

OP, when you're at the end of your tether you need to follow the path of least resistance.

• Regarding the food - serve him a normal portion of whatever the family is having and let him decide to eat or not. If he doesn't he'll just have to be hungry until the next meal. So long as his weight stays in the healthy range there is nothing to worry about. If he isn't hungry then you shouldn't force him to eat, and if he is then maybe next time he'll eat the food he's given. DO NOT give him any extra if he says he's hungry ten minutes later. Explain to him calmly that he had lunch and now lunch is over and he'll have to wait until snack time (and do not give him a bigger snack either

• Sleep - it does sound like he's turned it into a game so can you make it as boring as possible to him ? Don't run after him immediately when he goes out of bed, ignore him. After 5min he'll get bored - that's when you want to put him back to bed. I also suggest giving him toys to play with in bed to keep him busy. Actually I'd get him a new toy that you think he'll love and that he's allowed to play with ONLY in bed. It doesn't matter if he's playing and not sleeping, what matters is that he's in bed, he stays in bed, and he's quiet. Baby books are also a good idea.
• I also second the idea of giving him an audiobook or putting on some quiet music. I got my kids a storikids from amazon and it works quite well, my eldest is always up for a story. 2yo may be a bit young for that still but quiet music or bedtime nursery rhymes is a good idea. You can get free stuff on youtube or buy a cd and put the cd player in his room.

If it seems to you like the behaviour doesn't abate in any way, maybe consult a health professional just to rule out any health issue or disorder that could contribute.

When he wakes up at 4am or 5am what do you do ? I'd suggest putting him back to bed. I've always been really clear with mine that the day doesn't start until 7am at the earliest. I don't care if they're awake and playing in their bed, so long as they're reasonably quiet doing it.
If he wakes up at 4 and you put him back to bed, again, keep it really boring. No running after him if he runs away giggling. Keep the lights off. Don't talk to him. Put him back to bed and go back to yours, rince and repeat, try that for a few days and see if it makes a difference.

Maybe you've already tried all this, if so I don't really have any more suggestion than bear it out. Can you hire a babysitter for a couple of nights a month and go to a hotel, maybe with your partner ? A night or two off to look forward to could really help.

I did read them actually but I did miss that final sentence in the middle post. Hands up.

My thoughts still stand, though. Just exchange ‘woman’ for man and ‘her’ for his.

Although some responses make more sense now.

You can try to justify a man scaring and hitting a 1yr old baby but that’s on your conscience. Don’t admonish others for not joining in.