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Original poster

She's a fire-starter, a (five year old blue-eyed butter wouldn't melt) firestarter.......help

91 replies

charliesays · 09/01/2008 10:44

DD2, we find, has been playing with matches.

I'm asking for advice here first - has anyone had this problem, and how did you address it?

She's very inventive, I'll give her that, she's obviously secreted them in hidey holes because previously the matches were stored on a high shelf, in a basket, but she got to them.

I found some burnt out matches for the first time two days ago, and had a chat about the consequences and tried to appeal regarding how sore hot things can be, etc, etc - but I think there's a huge element of fascination there, and I want to know how to really get through to her - I really want to cover this one completely.

I thought I'd gotten through to her, but lo, hoovered their room just now, and there are more little burnt out stubs. I want to really get through to her, as I don't want it to become a situation where she's on the lookout for an opportunity. I don't want to terrify her either though. What to do, what to do.

I leave it in your hand, mumsnet.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Fireflyfairy2 · 09/01/2008 11:12

I don't think there's much psychology behind it.

She likes lighting matches.

You let her light matches and light a fire and now you are telling her she can't.

She is getting mixed messages.

And I would definitely want to scare the living daylights out of her regarding fire & matches!!

Original poster

charliesays · 09/01/2008 11:15

Magnifying glasses.....I find myself glad the sun's so weak.....

Obviously, it's entirely neccesary to make sure this lesson gets home - I feel that at her age, it's not enough to hide things from her, she also has to understand why not to touch.

OP posts:

DrNortherner · 09/01/2008 11:15

Somethings have to be forbidden imo, and lighting fires at 5 years old is one of them.

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ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 09/01/2008 11:16

I have to agree with Wisteria. Teach her to light the fire safely and only with your help.

If you make something forbidden, they only want to do it more - it's human nature.

You won't be giving her the green light to start fires willy nilly, as I know from what you have said you will be making it clear to her that she can't carry on doing what she has been doing.

Original poster

charliesays · 09/01/2008 11:16

Firefly, I've never let her light a fire, I just let her put stuff on it to burn.

OP posts:

Wisteria · 09/01/2008 11:17

You are sure that the burnt out stubs you've found weren't from 2 days before?

Just a thought.....

Original poster

charliesays · 09/01/2008 11:17

Firefly, I've never let her light matches, she just gets to put rubbish/fuel on the fire, supervised.

OP posts:

wannaBe · 09/01/2008 11:18

am at suggestions that she should be allowed to light fires under supervision. She is 5 years old fgs, she should be playing with toys not lighting fires.

I would lock the matches away and would put the fear of god into her about the potential consequences of what she is doing. "if you drop a match you could set the house on fire, if the house burns down you might not be able to get out and then you will die". and I would have no qualms about doing this - this is potentially life and death stuff, so no reason for her not to know about the death bit IMO.

Wisteria · 09/01/2008 11:19

It could be that she's frustrated at being allowed to burn stuff but not actually strike the match and so that is feeding the fascination.

Why don't you ask her why she wants to do it? Her answer may provide you with the correct way to handle it.

peatbogfaerie · 09/01/2008 11:20

sorry, haven't had time to read whole thread, but neighbour's dd (5) just burnt their friends house down over new year, and is now getting regular visits from the local firemen -- so do get in touch with your fire station, and good luck ...

DrNortherner · 09/01/2008 11:20

See I think you have gone wrong by letting her put things on the fire. 5 is too young imo.

My ds is 5 and would not dream of even touching a box of matches let alone striking one.

Grown ups handle fires/matches/lighters, kids don't.

That's my rule anyway.

Original poster

charliesays · 09/01/2008 11:20

Sorry, the messages I post keep disappearing!

Sadly, Wisteria, I know they're new stubs - I cleaned the whole floor after the first discovery to see how..extensive...she'd been.

OP posts:

Wisteria · 09/01/2008 11:23

Yes DrN I agree with what you do as well (zero tolerance etc) but depending on the type of child and upbringing some children need to be treated differently IMO - I was brought up in an old draughty farmhouse and did things at 5 that most children wouldn't do now. If fires are a daily part of life in charliecat's dd's life then it needs to be addressed differently.

She sounds like she's experimenting to me.

stripeymama · 09/01/2008 11:23

Actually I think that children should be allowed to use fire responsibly, and part of that can be to allow them to help lighting a woodburner if that is the way your home is heated.

As a traveller, I know a lot of children who are growing up in vehicles or outdoors, all of whom are used to fire and know that its hot and can be dangerous.

There is something to be said for the idea that once a child understands how to use something properly, they are unlikely to play with it (think it is in John Holt books and he explains it better). Also similar idea exists in Continuum Concept, re sharp knives.

Obviously I agree that matches and lighters should be kept out of the reach of children though, as you can't always rely on their good sense prevailing.

Hulababy · 09/01/2008 11:24

At the moment with this OP's DD I would be concerned about teaching her to light fires safely and supervised. Reason why is that she is already going behind mum's back and taking matches, which she knows she is not allowed to do so. What's to say that this will stop just because she is shown how to do it properly. IMO there is no safe way to show a 5yo a safe way to light fires, esp in a house, unless you can guarantee that they will never try and do it when unsupervised. And I mean never.

I had a coal fire when growing up - from age 1y to about 10y. We simply knew that fires were not toys, they were not something children needed to light, go near, touch, etc. It was not an option - ever. We were even told off for throwing things, like paper, in to the fire as my parents felt that this was the "thin end of the wedge" so to speak. It in no way made me or my brother feel we were being forbidden from something exciting. We simply knew that fires could be dangerous and the consequences could be life threatening. And we were not some goody goody children either. It was just drilled into us that children and fires do not mix, and why.

wannaBe · 09/01/2008 11:24

"Do you not think that when you 'forbid' something it just becomes even more enticing?"
ah, better let him have a bottle of beer with his dinner then, and perhaps a cigarette or two afterwards. And then I'll roll him a spliff before he goes to bed, because if I forbid them it'll only be more enticing .

some things are for adults only, and fire is one of them.

DrNortherner · 09/01/2008 11:25

Lol wanabee

stillaslowreader · 09/01/2008 11:26

I would get fire service advice if I were you.
We put up smoke alarms everywhere and told dd why. Also told her how to escape from house should the stairs be on fire. Which frightened her so much she had nightmares. I felt guilty about that.

stripeymama · 09/01/2008 11:27

The idea is that once a child can make something work for them it is not seen as a toy or as something to be played with, but as a tool.

But I know that not everyone agrees, and that not every child is able to make the distinction.

Original poster

charliesays · 09/01/2008 11:29

I get your point, Dr Northerner, but it's such a part of our daily life - "Let's pop that on the fire" is as much a part of our daily conversation as "Pick up your toys" - I guess I thought that the day to day ubiquity of firelighting would mean it was never an issue.

Living in the middle of nowhere does mean they are exposed to a lot of experiences early, I'm just trying to ensure that house fires aren't one of them.

I'm not thick, I'm aware of keeping things out of reach, etc, (obviously not enough out of reach), but thanks for all the tips, I just wanted to see if anyone has actually encountered this and how they dealt with it.

I've got plenty of tips to plough through, anyway, and thanks so much for them {smile]

OP posts:

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 09/01/2008 11:31

Don't be so bloody minded wannabe, making that analogy is pointless and takes the piss out of what Wisteria is trying to convey.

At the end of the day, everybody has a different pov and rules in their own home, and it is up to each family to decide how best to tackle things. Comments like that don't help and are insulting.

Original poster

charliesays · 09/01/2008 11:31

Sorry, Wisteria, by the time I'd typed my last message you'd already put what I wanted to say, but much shorter!

OP posts:

Indith · 09/01/2008 11:35

I'm with the lighting fires responsibly with mummy camp. Kids need to know these things otherwise you end up like half my Guides who at 10 years old are afraid of striking a match and don't know how to do it properly, thus ending up striking it towards them and dropping it in shock when it lights!

But, she clearly needs guidence on what is safe and what isn't. Perhaps burning rubbish os not such a good thing, this is a continual problem with Brownies and even some of the Guides that if there is a fire they want to be poking it and puttin gstuff on it all the time which can be dangerous.

You need to keep all fire making stuff awway from her I think while you begin a bit of household retraining. Fires are your source of heat, they are not fun.(at least not util you get to be a much older Scout when you find out all about exploding things ) therefore, you and your dd light the fires together when they need to be lit. Allow her to help to build the fire and perhaps build up to being allowed to strike a match in the correct fashion and put it on to light it. Rather than buring rubbish on it perhaps do occasionall treats such as toasting bread over the fire in the evening.

Hopefully the phase will pass. I grew up with an open fire and it was never forbidden, rather I would help clean out the grate and light the fire from an early age. Ditto knives, I was obsessed with whittling sticks and instead of being terrified of it my parents taught me to use a knife and were happy to lend me theirs and supervise me (though perhaps not knives aged 5!)

Wisteria · 09/01/2008 11:38

I do wish people would at least consider sometimes that just because we may not agree with certain methods of child rearing, it doesn't mean that we are irresponsible parents.

FWIW wannabe (although I think yur analogy was completely ridiculous and actually v insulting) I have always allowed my children a little sip of what I'm having alcohol wise if they wanted it (as my parents did with me from about the age of 5), my 14 yr old dd is the only one of her peer group that doesn't get excited by being allowed alcohol and regularly turns it down.

stripeymama · 09/01/2008 11:41

There is nothing irresponsible about teaching your child how to use things safely

Equally there is nothing irresponsible about keeping them away from any kind of danger.

Its up to you as a parent to decide what works best for your family and lifestyle (and nerves!)

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