What does zero tolerance actually mean?

[BeMyFriend90]

My DS is 2. He is very difficult. Exhausting. He often tries to hit me and DH.

This weekend, he went for two other kids in the park. Running towards them to hit them. I managed to stop him both times. He used to be obsessed with hugging other children, always trying to kiss adults, saying 'big cuddle' all the time. But in the last 6 months the affection is getting less and less, and the hitting/pushing/kicking more extreme.

I've been reading advice online and trying to work out how to help him and stop him from hurting us/other people. And someone commented 'I have a zero tolerance to hitting. My kids just wouldn't be allowed to do something like that that. It's a non-negotiable'

Or something like that. And I just don't understand? What does zero-tolerance mean? I'm happy to be very angry with him. Happy to take him away from the situation straight away. Happy to do whatever I need to do to stop him. But none of it is working. So how does someone choose to have zero tolernace? How can you stop a kid doing something in the moment?

I feel like a total failure. I've read so much of parents on here saying 'what an awful kid hitting/biting' etc and my kid isn't awful. I don't think any kids are awful. But he's not being particularly nice right now. And he doesn't seem v. happy either.

Everything is fine at home. He goes to nursery which he seems to enjoy and he doesn't do anything wrong there.

Please don't feel like a failure. Our kids all give us different challenges. This is one of your challenges. It doesn't make you a bad parent!

At 2 zero tolerance to me in that situation would be a very stern "No! You do NOT hit" and a removal from the situation. Every. Single. Time. (So, zero tolerance for letting the behaviour slide or go unchallenged - you challenge it and don't allow it every time)

I don’t think you’re a failure at all. My DS is a bit younger than yours but I was contemplating starting a thread too. Mine is so rough and to be honest aggressive with other kids, grabbing and pulling them away from something he wants like a car or slide. He also snatches toys when someone else has them.

I’ve read online to try to ignore but you can’t if they are being aggressive, and while I do say NO firmly and move him away he gravitates back.

Short of isolating us until he’s 5, I don’t know how to deal with it! So sorry if that’s not helpful but you’re not alone. My DS is 16 months.

I'm sure your little boy isn't awful, he's just a toddler with toddler struggles.

First it would be good if you could find out why he's unhappy (which I'm sure you know) how's his speech? Is he frustrated? Is something hurting?

Zero tolerance looks like this in my house.

Toddler hits

Immediately pick him up and remove him from the other child stern voice "We don't hit thank you. Is something the matter? No? okay go play."

Toddler hits again

"Okay you can't play with Alice anymore" Remove completely from the situation do a different activity, just you two with a calm chat about how hitting hurts people and isn't nice.

This is just what works with my child, it may not for anyone elses, but you'll find your balance.

Hi OP. I have no kids, so I’m certainly not going to suggest anything - I’m sure you’ve tried everything, and all I have up my sleeve are clips from ‘super nanny!’

I find this post really fascinating. I too wonder what ‘zero tolerance’ means. We have a ‘zero tolerance’ policy at the school I teach in, for bullying etc, but in reality, no child is ever going to be permanently excluded. So I have no idea what it really means! Do these parents mean the second their child hits someone they take them to the local orphanage!? (I’m joking).

What do you do when he hits you? What does DH do when DS hits you? Or when DS hits him?

You’re absolutely not a failure at all

Thank you for your advice!

I think if zero tolerance is a stern no and taking him away from the situation - then we definitely do that. So at the park, he went to hit another kid, I grabbed him to stop him doing it, took him to the side of the park and told him 'Do NOT hit other children. That is not nice' and then he ran off and then he went to do it again and I grabbed him and we left the park and went home

The problem is...while I'm telling him off/putting him in the car - he is going absolutely crazy. Trying to hit me. Screaming. Tears. Shaking. Complete oblivion. He's not learning anything, he can't even bloody hear me.

And then after he has calmed down I will sit him down and explain that hitting is bad and hurts people and he will actually say 'no more hitting mummy' and then two hours later - he's smacked me round the face again.

It's not getting any better. That's why I questioned this zero tolerance thing..it makes it sound like it works...but it doesn't. It doesn't matter how unacceptable I find it, how consisently I tell him not to do it, he still does it. I would say he tries to hit me 5 - 10 times a day.

Do you do lots of praise when he's not hitting op? If hitting gets lots of attention and firm talkings to and not hitting gets ignored, then that could be a reason. When you're playing together nicely, or sat watching TV and hittings not even on his mind, give lots of "This is so nice, isn't it. I love building blocks with you. It's lovely and calm in this house today!" "Wow this is a great cuddle while we watch duggee! It's so much fun to cuddle you and relax without any angry hands!"

You mind sound like a bit of an idiot but little ones really need it spelt out for them.

DH gets very annoyed with DS if he hits me or our young baby. Very annoyed. He will grab DS and take him into another room, tell him off in his sternest voice, and then leave him there. DS will start to throw things on the floor, push furniture over, we just ignore him.

Then eventually DS will start crying and saying 'cuddle please mummy cuddle cuddle cuddle' and just cling to me so upset and shakey.

He only hits his baby brother if I'm not paying him attention, and he doesn't do it very hard. He almost kind of just pushes him and looks at me beacuse he knows I will react straight away.

I just feel like it's a matter of time before someone is really hurt. My heart breaks for him because he is a sweet boy. So affectionate. But he seems so highly strung. And he's scared of everything. We put on some cartoon and he will run away shouting 'scary scary' and he has nightmares at night where he wakes up screaming

Autism has been mentioned but he doesn't do any of this at nursery or if he's left with grandparents. He only does it if me or DH is with him. SO he must be able to control it on some level????

I think these things take time, you're doing it now so you child doesn't still hit age 6. But it's hard work whilst you're doing it! (I don't mean it will take 4 years, just that your doing the painful bit now and hopefully will get results later)

Also how verbal is your child? I found it much easier once mine could explain what their view was of the situation. (Normally some crazy toddler version of what was happening)

Yes, try to give lots of praise to him. I tell him I love him all the time and he just looks at me and says 'yep'. He likes being praised though - he often likes to count up to 10 or sing a song and then gets lots of praise and clapping. He literally beams when we give him praise.

His language isn't great. Talks in 3 words sentences max and pronouciation not great so struggle to understand him sometimes.

I feel like I can't take him anywhere right now cos i'm scared of him hurting other kids.

Okay so when dh gets angry he grabs Ds, throws him in another room and leaves him there. This hurts Ds right? Not Physically, but it's hurting his feelings and he's too young to understand them.

So dh gets upset = he Hurts ds.

Ds gets upset... He hurts others by hitting? Could you have a chat with dh and try to get him to try a calm but firm approach instead of a angry one?

OP, many children hold together their struggles at nursery/in an unfamiliar situation and then melt down at home, because it’s ‘safe’.

If you have concerns that your toddler’s behaviour is more extreme than other children, raise your concerns with the HV/GP.

@Naameechaangee Yes. I think you're right. We have been going with the stern but very calm response for the last 6 months, so we say no but we don't raise our voices or show any emotion at all.

But when he started hitting our baby (11 months) and trying to push him over when baby tries to pull himself to standing - my DH was like 'it's not working just saying no over and over again' and has become more angry with his response. He doesn't shout properly or swear or anything but he is definitely firm, takes him under his arm and takes him into room and really puts on that deep, scary voice. I guess it's hard to be calm when the baby has been hit around the head and is now crying.

He’s 2!!! Honestly don’t worry, repeat kind hands and say no and he will grow out of it. Punishments like the naughty step are good from like 3 up when they understand and communicate well- before then it’s distraction and watching closely.

Really don’t worry

It will start working - and will work faster if DH moderates his behavior.

Zero tolerance to me is always picking up on it, no excuses. No he's just tired/hungry/it's his favourite colour etc. Just stern words then removal (or straight removal if really bad).
Sounds like you are doing the right thing. DS is 2. He'll get there.

They're so hard when they're little op. If nothings working and you're running in circles trying to figure it out then it could just be something his has to grow out of. I feel for you, at the end of the day none of us have the answers. Just distract the best you can. "Ouch, you've hit your sister. Let's not do that, come with mummy and we'll bake a cake instead." "Oh dear you've pushed her over. I think you should go in your pram for a lay down while I give her snuggles now."

It will pass eventually, and if it doesn't school, health visitors, someone should be able to help in time.

He's nearly 3. But yes, I take your point - he's only still so young.

We took him to the zoo this weekend and it is quite obvious his behaviour is more extreme than other kids his age. We had two violent meltdowns before we even got our tickets out! And he just refused to look at any of the animals at all - and just lay on the floor and then would hit me if I tried to encourage him. He refuses to follow us or hold our hands. Just runs in the opposite direction. At one point I thought he was going to come face to face with a kangaroo!! I see other kids get annoyed about stuff but my DS goes from calm to scratching my face in two seconds flat over nothing.

You're right though - nobody has the answers. I think when I read about 'zero tolerance' it just made it sound like if you're stern/consistent enough then they will learn pretty quickly that it's not acceptable. And I just haven't found that to be the case. But there is no fix here i guess. It's just hard when you've been hit around the face and it's not even 6am in the morning! I had to hide scratches on my neck with make up so my boss wouldn't give me a weird look - and that just doesn't feel great.

At 2 and with minimal language skills, it sounds like hitting is his form of communication. Keep calmly redirecting him before he hits when you can. If he gets that far then tell him no, take him away from the situation etc. All kids are different, so don't judge him by others development. From his point of view, he didn't want to go to the zoo and kept telling you he didn't like the animals, but you persisted in trying to make him. He therefore communicated with you in the only way he knows how. Obviously that is easy for me to say in isolation, it must be much harder when you are living it every day! But modeling calm behavior will teach him that. Yelling at him teaches him to be aggressive.

You're right though - nobody has the answers.

Never a truer word spoken!

I think when I read about 'zero tolerance' it just made it sound like if you're stern/consistent enough then they will learn pretty quickly that it's not acceptable

I mean, they will learn eventually but a) it isn't quick it's just doing it with mind numbing consistency and b) they can know something isn't acceptable and still choose to do it anyway!

No parent or kid is perfect. We just love our perfectly imperfect children!

We're pretty strict with behaviour, especially about things like hitting, shoving and kicking. I set out expectations before we go places and there's have no issues taking him home if he's a nightmare. But, I use a load of different ways to manage behaviour. Sometimes it's a telling off, some times it's distraction, sometimes it's being one step ahead and doing something before it escalates, sometimes it's pointing out really good behaviour, sometimes it's picking him up and carting him out. And it changes, DS is just 4 so if he gets into a scrap at the park I'm fairly sure he can handle himself but an unprovoked hit from him would be straight out.

With things like a younger sibling I've found it much easier to be like "oh wow Freddie, look he's copying how you stand up. It's great you show him how to do this" then dealing with the consequences of him striking out (I've got a bigger age gap though).I don't think your DH is handling it well, and I get it, I've done similar but it really doesn't help in my experience. I found that turning 3 stage very handle to manage at times - tantrums seemed never ending and hugely explosive, but they do (mostly) calm down.

I would take it to mean they don’t put up with it,
Like it or not a lot of parents make excuses and don’t deal with it.

If you can get hold of a copy read 'Toddler Taming'
It was a life saver when mine were little. My GP still has a copy on her bookshelf

It's practical. Not preachy and easy to read.

Zero tolerance in my house looks like removing the child from the scenario immediately. As in your zoo example…It sounds like he was given lots of chances to not listen, have a meltdown, run off etc. I would have already left by then I think. At 2/3 a lesson needs to be constantly repeated until learned. Three was actually worse than two for both of mine and they are exerting their will ( which can sometimes be a positive thing) and desperately wanting everything their way. Does the child have any SEN? Maybe it’s a lot of frustration at communicating if speech is delayed at all? In my experience the zero tolerance idea works but it is by no means an overnight success.

Sounds really tough, op.

I’d try to agree an approach with DH and apply it consistently- it’s hard when you don’t agree on the best response. But fwiw it sounds like you are already basically applying a zero tolerance approach in that you don’t allow hitting and make this clear to DD every time. Was also struck by you saying autism has been mentioned- mentioned by who? Have you spoken to your GP?

That should say DS.