Disinhibited social engagement disorder - anyone has experience

[Loladoesmagic]

Hello,

I've got some concerns about my 4 yo DD's boundaries when it comes to strangers and I've come across DSED which perfectly describes her behaviour.

DH and I are so upset about the way she behaves when we are out, she latches onto strangers, mainly to play with their kids, but then she leaves us with no warning and never looks back to check on us. She is very bright otherwise, very articulate and has no other issues that we are aware of.

She's been to 2 nurseries, a private one before she joined the school one, and they never raised any concerns about her or her behaviour.

If anyone has any experience with this, I would very very grateful for any advice.

My extremely extrovert 6 year old is like this. She is the child who would get in a van to see puppies.

I have to admit it has never occurred to me it was anything other than being a very enthusiastic participant in the world. Is there something in particular that worries you, because you initial description sounds irritating but in the range of normal?

@Teenytinyvoice we also thought she is very extroverted and sociable, but this is a step further. For instance she would go for a walk with DH in a big park, there would be another parent with a child she approaches the child, starts having a conversation with both and 10 mins later she follows them everywhere. Dh is telling her they have to go somewhere else, she pulls a tantrum, makes a scene in front of these people and screams she wants to go with them. It doesn't end up well.

Same at playgrounds, she latches onto to a child, then his or her parents and completely disregards anything I say or do. We usually can't leave until the other people leave the playground, there will be screaming and crying and I don't know how to cope with it.

Good grief this is perfectly normal for the age, if they don’t have siblings near in age and are sociable then expect it to go on far longer..
Cope with it by parenting.

@Peppaismyrolemodel thanks for your comment, very helpful. She hugged a dad (a stranger) in the playground, 5 mins after meeting him. It's about safety too.

If we go to the park with friends, it’s entirely likely that my daughter would ignore the child we have gone with in favour of a random adopted friend. We have to watch her like a hawk, as she would wander off with them.

But when told it’s time to go she would skip off quite happily.

Is your daughter your only? How is she with the adults in her nursery?

@Teenytinyvoice

If we go to the park with friends, it’s entirely likely that my daughter would ignore the child we have gone with in favour of a random adopted friend. We have to watch her like a hawk, as she would wander off with them.

That sounds exactly like DD except that she would not leave until her new friend leaves...unless she has a class or something exciting planned after.

She is our only.

At her current nursery I think she has some boundaries with the adults as they are quite formal. When she went to her previous private nursery she was very 'huggy' with some of the teachers, but they didn't mind, they actually thought it was sweet.

From the sound of it this diagnosis is simply a way of describing a way of being, a type of personality. Don't be searching around for a "diagnosis" to explain/ excuse behaviour that you wouldn't otherwise excuse.
Parent her by deciding what is acceptable in your view, don't start thinking, oh she has dsed she can't help it. Honestly, she sounds like a lovely outgoing sociable child who likes to get her own way and makes a scene if she doesn't.
Parent her, ie you decide what's appropriate and, if necessary stay close by, make sure she follows your rules. If You don't want her ever hugging strangers, firstly put in place ways to minimise this, and if or happens follow through with what you have explained would happen, go home for example.
Start with the behaviour you find most troubling and go from there. In my view at this age it would be prioritising her safety rather than social etiquette.

I think you are seeking to attach a label to something which is pretty much within the realms of normal for a lot of young children.

My youngest son I much the same, he makes a 'friend' wherever we go and gets quite attached to them, is very extrovert and will go up to random adults and happily chat away and cuddle them etc. It's noticeable to us because our older son is the complete opposite and would barely speak to family members at that age!

It's a problem/risk for a 4 year old but presumably she isn't left unsupervised in the park? So you manage that risk. As she gets older you talk to her about boundaries and safety etc. Its not really something that needs a label or a diagnosis in my opinion, it's just her personality.

My DS would do this at that age. Constantly chatting to strangers, hugging random people, would constantly run off, no sense of danger, no impulse control. Was later diagnosed with ADHD.

He's now 15. He would rather die slowly and exceedingly painfully than touch or talk to anyone, even me. And he doesn't do running either, it's not cool.

Of course you can leave the park! Pick her up and walk out. She'll get over it.

She doesn't have some sort of disorder or syndrome, she's excited by being around new fun people, that's all.

Thank you..I appreciate your comments!

We don't see this behaviour in her friends or cousins of similar age (they are all quite shy) and we have no other point of reference, so understandably we were concerned. Both of us are extreme introverts too.

Our DD is 5 and is like this too. I'm beginning to teach her about talking to strangers in the last few months because she'll happily engage anyone in conversation and tell them intimate details about our private lives. I've told her she's only allowed to speak to people she knows, or people that we speak to. Still monitoring it very closely as I think it will take a while before she really takes it on board and I don't want to scare her.

I would agree with the majority of the comments above, and add to that that it sounds as though she has learnt that she can kick off and often enough she will get to stay longer at the park if that’s what she wants. She is happy to leave if it’s on her terms - to do something exciting as you said. I think you’ll probably have to weather a few big tantrums but that if you are consistent about it she will learn soon enough that tantrums don’t make you back down.

I’d also make sure you do some work on preparing her in advance and setting your expectations - so talk to her beforehand about how when I say it’s time to go we are going, and repeat this so it sinks in. And give her warnings as it’s getting to home time, so that she knows it’s coming and can finish her game and it’s not unexpected. I would also think about how you give warnings - would she understand “in five minutes, in two minutes…”? Or would she do better with a more concrete countdown like a sand timer or even “after I have pushed you on the swing we are going to go home”, and another reminder as she’s getting down.

She does sound normal and sweet to me

@Bancha thank you, that's very reassuring.

We do give her plenty of warning...15 mins, 10 mins etc. It works sometimes but most of the time she is pushing it, depending on who is in the playground.

I think then the fact that she can handle it in some situations and not others suggests it’s not a case of her having a diagnosis, she’s just learnt that screaming can be a useful tool to get her own way! so now you need to help her unlearn it. It sounds like you just need to dig deep and not back down. She is little and she will learn. You can be really loving towards her when she is tantrumming - she is also having an awful time and not being ‘manipulative’. You can empathise with her and praise her for when she manages to calm down, or whenever she manages to leave a place without a scene. It doesn’t have to feel ‘mean’, but I do think you’d be letting her down if you don’t try to set firmer boundaries. I have worked with a lot of children with inconsistent (or no!) boundaries and it doesn’t really help them much.

[quote Loladoesmagic]@Peppaismyrolemodel thanks for your comment, very helpful. She hugged a dad (a stranger) in the playground, 5 mins after meeting him. It's about safety too.[/quote]
The hugging at least could be sensory seeking behaviour, in which case giving her the needed sensory input before going out could help. This is something an Occupational Therapist should be able to help with.

Hi @Loladoesmagic

I have a very gregarious, social and bold son and would Google his behaviour too and so
I Know exactly how you’ve likely come to this conclusion! From my
Own panic- research, I think that the diagnosis of that particular syndrome is quite singularly adaptable to kids who have been severely neglected or institutionalised and I think it is kind of one of a set of issues associated with kids who are poorly attached but isn’t really a standalone thing or ever even suspected in kids from loving homes. But trust me I understand the fear- I was convinced I’d messed up my kid’s attachment by being on my phone too much when he was breastfeeding 😂 his best friend is the opposite and his mum is afraid she has messed HIM up as he still hasn’t gotten the hang of toilet training (they are both almost 4). Us mums are great at finding ways to torture ourselves. One piece of literature that helped me - which I couldn’t find again sorry- stated that children are super social and bold because they KNOW we are there. I’ve noted that for example when DC runs off in the shop and realises I’m not around he will call for me, he won’t go up to anyone else. Things like that are markers of secure attachment (kids with DSED will just look for anyone to be ‘mummy’). I know it can be hurtful and make you feel like you could be anyone and that you’re not special to her, but she feels secure enough to know that she can go off and you’ll always follow, that she can test boundaries and you’ll always be there. I know l the embarrassment of her freaking out when she has to leave another adult to go with you probably doesn’t help! But try to treat those things as separate. If you give her adequate warning to leave the park for whatever reason and in whatever situation, try to follow through even if she screams, after a few times I think she will understand that you’re not joking when you say it’s time to go. Make sure you have conversations with her about stranger danger- our son wanted to go into a man’s house the other day because the man and helped him catch his runaway balloon. I had to explain that even if strangers do nice things, they may not be nice people and may hurt him if he goes anywhere alone with them. I think we have to deal with a bit More of this kind of chat- but hey my son was potty trained by 2! All kids have their strengths and weaknesses. As you said your DD is smart and sweet, and my DC is actually just the most fun kid to be around, super
empathetic, funny and chatty -
amazing qualities! If the park feels overwhelming try to take a break and do something at home just you two, maybe it’s you that needs some reconnection time? And don’t worry too much if you can. Let go of the fear and connect with your kid, I’m sure you’ll see how bonded you are with her once you let go of the anguish and fear associated with these triggers and can admire her social skills and charm :)

I think it helped that it’s a running joke that my sibling was the same, my mum still gets Christmas cards from a family they “adopted” on holiday 30 years ago. My sibling has grown up to be the kind of person who is an amazing supportive friend and very involved in community events and social justice. It’s their personality.

To me it sounds more like a combination of things; a personality different from your own and some learnt behaviours about getting her own way. That second bit probably just means she is bright!

I’d give it a few more years before concluding it was anything more than the above.

@amorningperson thank you so much for taking the time to reply. We had an incident at the playground yesterday and I got home so upset, I spent the whole evening after DD went to bed 'panic-researching' and at 1am I came across DSED . I know it applies mostly to institutionalised children or those who've been subjected to severe abuse which obviously does not apply to DD, but then I thought, just like you, maybe I've not given her enough care and attention when she was a baby (even though I never left her side, even for 1 hour) until she was about 9 months. Oh, dear!!

Your comment is very helpful, thank you so much.

[quote Loladoesmagic]@Bancha thank you, that's very reassuring.

We do give her plenty of warning...15 mins, 10 mins etc. It works sometimes but most of the time she is pushing it, depending on who is in the playground.[/quote]
This is so, so so normal at her age!

To be honest the counting thing, while very widespread parenting advice these days, in my experience does fuck all. At that age I don't think they know what 15/10/5 minutes means, and no matter what warnings you give, no kid will want to leave the park anyway.

You probably need to get quite tough, and show her that tantrumming to get her way is met with a hard no. If she's screaming, pick her up, tuck her under your arm, and carry her out. I bet you've seen loads of other parents have to do this.

(I am so thrilled right now that these days are history for me )

Can't see anything wrong with this. She is just outgoing and likes people.

The number of times I had to carry a tantruming toddler from wherever we were (playground, shop, etc) is rather high. I just picked him up, carried him under my arm, feet first if he tried to kick his way out of it so that I could hold them if need be, and walked OUT of wherever it was we were. The tantrums stopped because he realised they didn't achieve what he wanted and instead meant he lost snacks, treats, etc and outings were cut short.

If you don't deal with this now she will get too heavy to be able to just pick up and carry out.

I think it’s important to teach boundaries to her. I would find it annoying if my child had another child following her around if my child wasn’t interested. Similarly, I’ve been at the park before and a child has attached themselves to me with a parent shouting weakly ‘let them have some peace’ and in the end I’ve left early! Your child might not be like this but I do think they need to learn ‘no’ otherwise they need to learn they’ll have to go home.

I can appreciate why this has been upsetting you/stressing you out. It’s not true that all kids are like this. Some really need their parents to negiotiate any social interaction and some don’t like leaving their parents side. Lots of kids fall Inbetween on this spectrum.
It sounds like your daughter is on the more extreme end of the spectrum. I have a son who is not quite like your daughter but similar.
He is very sociable and extrovert. My Partner and i are both introverts. I think we lead a life with a normal amount of socialising but I sometimes wonder what life would be like for him in an extroverted family and if he is craving for more.
I try not to let it, but The way he never even looks back to see if I am there etc sometimes has this way of just making me feel redundant, like he doesn’t need me but once I get over the emotion then I thibk - as per the previous poster- that this behaviour is demonstrative of a secure attachment. Insecure/anxiously attached kids don’t trust strangers. Your daughter does because you have given her a deep sense that the world is safe, humans are good and the world she goes out to explore will meet her in a positive way.
But I hear your concern that she doesn’t understand danger/risk. She is still very little. I don’t think the kids who ‘need’ their parents more stay with them because they understand strangers could be dangerous for example. They stay because they need their parent to help them feel ok.

Im rambling now.. It’s good you posted, I think: I hope it has helped. Our children can cause us so much worry. It’s definitely better to share than get locked in to private battles with our own fears

[quote Loladoesmagic]@Bancha thank you, that's very reassuring.

We do give her plenty of warning...15 mins, 10 mins etc. It works sometimes but most of the time she is pushing it, depending on who is in the playground.[/quote]
A 4 year old has no concept of time. So giving her time warnings is pointless. Instead, plan your outings to coincide with something else. When I take my grandchild to the park, we always get a small snack in the cafe, so this is the bribe - ‘ 2 more goes on the slide then time for snack’. Works every time!
Your child doesn’t have a ‘disorder’. They’re inquisitive and sociable.