ADHD child stealing from us

[beansonpizza]

A friend's DS (8) is in the same class as my DS. He comes home with us a couple of times a week while DF is at work. He has ADHD and is a handful, but we are all generally fond of him. DF helped me out a lot when I was training and sitting exams so I am really happy to return the favour. He is an only child and enjoys being with my DC.

Lately, his behaviour has become unmanageable. His outbursts involve colourful language and loud screams. Over the last week, he has started stealing small things from DS and then lying about it when challenged. When we mentioned it to DF, she said that she wanted to discuss it with us as there were other things she had found at home. She looked quite embarrassed.

She is very keen on positive parenting but I really feel that this doesn't help as there are no set boundaries that I can see. Just a lot of pandering and soothing when he gets frustrated (which is a lot). I also don't know that much about ADHD, but I know self control can be an issue.

I don't want to tell DF that her son can't come round anymore, but I do need help to find the (kind) words to tell her that I feel very strongly about this. I also need to figure out how to manage his behaviour in future. On Friday she invited us all around next weekend, which we had accepted, and so I was planning to start by telling him that we won't be coming because we are all sad that he has been taking our possessions home without discussing it with us. (So as not to drip feed, I have an ASD child and know that antisocial behaviour can be isolating for parents, and I really do not want to put this on DF. My DC are generally quite tolerant and accepting as a result of our ASD DC, but this is new to us!)

Beyond that, I have no idea? My DS is really really upset, and I feel that I have to support him.

Your child needs to come first. That is all.

Your DS is upset about his belongings being stolen, you remove the source of the upset.

Soon he’ll be stealing your belongings. How will you feel?

My dd had a friend who regularly took things when she came for tea. With her mothers permission, we would ask her to check her pockets as she left I think she thought we asked everyone.

My DS has ADHD and various types of unacceptable behaviour but not this, though I do sympathise.
It is hard for him to say why he does things often but we have found that talking to him about "why something is hard for you" e.g. why it's hard to sit nicely at breakfast or why it's hard to go out the door to school; or "what can we do to help you do X" helps him to tell us what's going on (and offers us a chance to explain what adult expectations are - not saying this child doesn't know this but DS can sometimes not really understand what is expected of him - yes you get pocket money no you can't just take it, yes we tell DD not to make faces, no you can't shout at her when she does).
Does that make sense? It's kind of about making it plain while finding out what's worrying him (could be something you don't expect) and working out how to stop it, but not shaming him for what was probably typically impulsive behaviour.

@bare that's funny! I did think of that, and I probably will.

@drspouse

My DS has ADHD and various types of unacceptable behaviour but not this, though I do sympathise. It is hard for him to say why he does things often but we have found that talking to him about "why something is hard for you" e.g. why it's hard to sit nicely at breakfast or why it's hard to go out the door to school; or "what can we do to help you do X" helps him to tell us what's going on (and offers us a chance to explain what adult expectations are - not saying this child doesn't know this but DS can sometimes not really understand what is expected of him - yes you get pocket money no you can't just take it, yes we tell DD not to make faces, no you can't shout at her when she does). Does that make sense? It's kind of about making it plain while finding out what's worrying him (could be something you don't expect) and working out how to stop it, but not shaming him for what was probably typically impulsive behaviour.

Thank you, that is really really helpful.

Hi friend, we are looking forward to coming over, can you have my dc's stuff ready for us to take back with us? .
See you then!
Thanks.
Love op.

@TheLightSideOfTheMoon

Your child needs to come first. That is all.

Your DS is upset about his belongings being stolen, you remove the source of the upset.

Soon he’ll be stealing your belongings. How will you feel?

I understand what you are saying, and this was my first instinct.

Now I am thinking that he definitely won't be allowed in the boys bedroom, and as the weather is nicer, just saying that the kids are only allowed in the garden and/or living room. In the meantime I can say to DF that she needs to make alternative arrangements (thus allowing her the breathing space to do so).

But I do think it is important to let this child know why I have taken these steps, and in a way that will have an impact

I would suggest a meeting between you, Ds, DF and her DC.
DC explains how the taking things makes him feel (if he is willing). You and DF explain expectations of behavior to DF DC As the weather improves maybe time at a park before coming home would help - burn off some energy before coming home.

Over the last week, he has started stealing small things from DS and then lying about it when challenged.

I do not think you can respond to an 8yo with ADHD the way you would respond to a NT 12yo.

I think this But I do think it is important to let this child know why I have taken these steps, and in a way that will have an impact is actually very cruel give the child's age + diagnosis.

I think you are way over the top here. You clearly are not fond of him!

In your OP you say I don't want to tell DF that her son can't come round anymore but in a later post you say I can say to DF that she needs to make alternative arrangements - I'm confused, are you planning to continue the arrangement or not?

I agree you need to make it very clear to both your friend and her DC that stealing is completely unacceptable. But do you really have to terminate the arrangement without giving him a second chance? ADHD children have poor impulse control so this is harder for him than an NT child.

Please look up executive functions or skills. He isn't stealing in the usual sense. My adhd DS went through this phase. Its probably best dealt with via kind reinforcement that we don't take things. His parents need to get on board. If he doesn't have those things he will feel its unfair and not learnt yet he can't just 'borrow them'..in the same way a 4 year old does this. It will blow over. My DS can't really go to the shops as he can't cope with not getting things he sees. He is 10 and is very intelligent. But impulse control is extremely weak.
He also sounds quite disregulated currently.
You don't say what the things are. But I'd just mention to parents and arrange for quiet return. Parents will be mortified so keep it light. Ask them to say you can't take without permission (I'd avoid stealing as a term).

BTW he will have shame for the things he does wrong even if not obvious he does. He just probably won't apologise.
Shame is a terrible thing for a SEN child. Because they know they've done wrong but they feel helpless to prevent it. It isn't calculated.

Thank you so much @Nomoresmoresthensnores

This is really helpful!

@LoganberryJam

In your OP you say I don't want to tell DF that her son can't come round anymore but in a later post you say I can say to DF that she needs to make alternative arrangements - I'm confused, are you planning to continue the arrangement or not?

I agree you need to make it very clear to both your friend and her DC that stealing is completely unacceptable. But do you really have to terminate the arrangement without giving him a second chance? ADHD children have poor impulse control so this is harder for him than an NT child.

I would like to continue the arrangement, but it depends on DF's response.

Which is why I want to choose my words very, very carefully. I want to find a way that will help DS feel that I have his back, whilst managing DF's sons condition and helping DF to not feel isolated. I have been there and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

@carefullycourageous

Over the last week, he has started stealing small things from DS and then lying about it when challenged.

I do not think you can respond to an 8yo with ADHD the way you would respond to a NT 12yo.

I think this But I do think it is important to let this child know why I have taken these steps, and in a way that will have an impact is actually very cruel give the child's age + diagnosis.

I think you are way over the top here. You clearly are not fond of him!

You don't think that a consequence should be given? Interesting.

This is a great attitude
We've had terrible isolation from other families, especially in the early years.
Perhaps you should also explain to your son that he needs to support this child. I know with ASC he might feel its extremely unfair and quite black and white, but you could make it clear the other child is struggling and needs support too to know what's the right way to behave. I don't think that's putting too much on a child.

Consequences don't work with ADHD. There's a lot of evidence.
Natural immediate consequences do. Punishments don't. At all.
Neither do delayed rewards.
You can't do Consequences for behaviours that are not controllable.
The Explosive child book is very good (I don't normally recommend books either!)

@carefullycourageous

Over the last week, he has started stealing small things from DS and then lying about it when challenged.

I do not think you can respond to an 8yo with ADHD the way you would respond to a NT 12yo.

I think this But I do think it is important to let this child know why I have taken these steps, and in a way that will have an impact is actually very cruel give the child's age + diagnosis.

I think you are way over the top here. You clearly are not fond of him!

Why do.people sat this "oh you don't like them do you"... Where has this come from? So op and her dc should just continue to have stuff stolen and say nothing?

My son had ADHD and sometimes I’ll explain something to him that should be common sense and he’ll process it as if it’s never occurred to him before. So like others have said, I’d tell him plainly, you can’t take things that are not yours. Do not take things from our home.

I follow a lady called the mini adhd coach on Instagram and it’s been really helpful for me to understand my son better.

@MichelleScarn It was because the OP said she was fond of them, and I do not think it sounds like she is that fond of them!

@beansonpizza

for your 'interesting' which comes over as snidey.

As a friend I do not think it is your place to be dishing out the 'consequences', no. I give consequences to my children of course, but not to the children of friends even where they are in my opinion in the wrong.

You seem unmoved by this child's diagnosis, and ignorant of how it will affect him.

If you want to punish children who are not in your family, I think you are a bit odd and the boy is better off not being invited to yours any more.

@carefullycourageous I can only apologise if you feel I am snidely or that I am not fond of a child. I am not going to detail this thread though. It's a public forum and I accept that some people just like to use their wooden spoon rather than offer helpful guidance/tips.

Thank you to everyone else who has contributed. I shall order the book and have a look at the Instagram account before I see DC tonight

You don't need to understand ADHD, why are you getting so involved? It's not your place to discipline this child. As others have said it's likely to be counterproductive if you wade in with neurotypical techniques.

If you want to learn about the approach by Ross Greene you should get the book Raising Human Beings - your child is not explosive so you don't need the explosive child version.

Draw a boundary by restricting access to certain areas of the house, asking him to empty his pockets in a friendly way or locking away valuables but don't sit him down and tell him that you've done it. The boundary is to protect you, not teach him.

@BertieBotts

You don't need to understand ADHD, why are you getting so involved? It's not your place to discipline this child. As others have said it's likely to be counterproductive if you wade in with neurotypical techniques.

If you want to learn about the approach by Ross Greene you should get the book Raising Human Beings - your child is not explosive so you don't need the explosive child version.

Draw a boundary by restricting access to certain areas of the house, asking him to empty his pockets in a friendly way or locking away valuables but don't sit him down and tell him that you've done it. The boundary is to protect you, not teach him.

Yes exactly this.

And to the OP @beansonpizza I do not have a wooden spoon - I genuinely think your approach seems unkind and is stepping over boundaries, as well as being ignorant of ADHD.

@BertieBotts @carefullycourageous thank you for your contributions.