help me with DH - HUGE row last night about DS1 going for a wee in the night.

[JingleyJen]

So please help me find a way of Dh seeing that not everything is about point scoring with DS1.

Last night we had a big problem at 1.50am when DS1 got up to have a wee. He started to go into our ensuite. DH asked him why he was going into the ensuite and not the family bathroom DS1 didn't answer but carried on going towards the ensuite.
Dh got really cross really quickly got out of bed and picked up DS1 and carried him into the family bathroom which made DS1 cry and then scream (which woke up DS2) so Dh got even more cross with him shouting and telling him to stop crying and to "just have a wee and go back to bed".
I couldn't cope with it so got out of bed and told Dh to go and sort out DS2 as he had woken him up not DS1 and I stayed with DS1 to try to calm him down enough so that he could have a wee.
Stomping and grumbling Dh walked into DS2's room and firmly told him to go back to sleep (DS2 is 15 months old) then Dh went back to bed.

Meanwhile DS1 went for a wee and I took him back to bed - it took me nearly an hour of stroking his back to get him to stop crying so he could fall asleep.
DS2 didn't settle until 2.5 hours later with Dh popping in to tell him to go to sleep.

Anyway - (sorry for the mamouth length of the post ) so today I said to Dh that we needed to talk about what happened last night. He feels that if he had let DS1 have a wee in the ensuite then DS1 would have got "his own way again" - I tried to explain that in some instances it isn't about getting his own way it is about it being the middle of the night and instead of wetting the bed he made his way to the toilet (does it matter which toilet?)

So in a calm conversation Dh explained that in almost all instances DS1 says one thing - Dh says another and it is Dh who is expected to back down or change his expectations.
I don't actually believe this is always the case but DS1 is nearly 4 and Dh has very high expectations of him and sometimes I believe unrealistic expectations of a 4 year old.

So the point of my post - How do I help Dh realise that it isn't always about point scoring / and that if he readjusted his expectations then he wouldn't feel this way.

HELP!! this seems to be the thing that causes the most tension in the house. They rutt like stags!! (not physically!)

Well said, Custy, agree totally. Hope the dh in question does read this and takes it on board. Doubt it though.

Blimey, of all the irrational arguments you can have with a 4yo, he has to choose which loo the poor kid uses in the middle of the night? And them stomps around making first kid cry, waking up second kid and generally upsetting everyone?

Sounds as if ds1 is the mature one here and dh has already regressed way behind the four year old level. What exactly does he get out of storming round the house making everyone scared and miserable?

It sounds to me as if it's about your DH feeling he needs a space, with you, that is not going to be interrupted by small children. BUT, a four year old boy in the middle of the night, will pee where it's most convenient and it is a bit daft to get into a fight in the night about it. Can you have a talk and a practice with DS during the day time about where he should go if he needs to go to the loo in the night? I accept that your DH is being a bit daft, BUT if it's that important to him it's probably worth training your son, in the day time, so that he doesn't disturb you both during the night.

BUT if it's that important to him it's probably worth training your son, in the day time, so that he doesn't disturb your..... control freak of a husband.

i think i am your dh in this scenario and i'm not proud of it. i'm afraid i find it easy to pick the wrong battle and paint myself into a corner.

however i hope i usually realise when i have been a twonk and have a chat with ds about it. i'd suggest your dh and ds have a heart to heart about it. nothing feels as bad as hearing from your own child how scared they were, and nothing melts you as fast as them forgiving and understanding you in the way you were not mature enough to do for them

He is being a plonker. Totally.

Hope you all get some sleep tonight and I hope that your DS hasn't been put off being a great big boy and getting up and going to the toilet himself in the night.

However you need to seriously talk to your DH and find out exactly WHY he is having such territorial issues with his son. None of this augurs well for his future relationship with your DCs (and you). Your DS wasn't trying to "get his own way" over anything. He needed a wee and was prob still half asleep and not thinking. Your DH needs to ask himself some long hard questions about his expectations of being a parent.

On a practical level maybe leaving a light on in the family bathroom would help DS remember to use that one although I really do not see what difference it makes which one he uses.

I can see that training ds to use the 'right' loo might be a pragmatic response, but it sends completely the wrong message to ds and dh - that it's OK for a grown man to throw a temper tantrum and frighten everyone including two little boys.

Ds needs reassurance that he was a good boy, and a big boy, for getting up to have a wee and that it was the right thing to do. And that Daddy was just tired and grumpy and he's sorry for shouting.

Dh needs to admit he was being completely unreasonable and needs to adjust his expectations. We all get things wrong sometimes but we need to admit it and make things better. And out of control anger needs thinking about very carefully. Can you imagine the terror of being four and having a great big bloke yelling at you? Terrifying. Especially when you have been barely awake.

Ok So a new day has bought a headache from hell as I didn't sleep well.

However, we did talk more. To quote "OK OK I fucked up spectacularly - I couldn't have got it more wrong and I was embarrassed yesterday and hate admitting it when I am wrong"

So I said - that was exactly what I had wanted to hear yesterday. He knows that he can not react the same way to that particular situation and in fact first thing DS1 stuck his head round our door and asked me if he could use our toilet and I said of course you can sweetie. Dh then got up and was happy and chatty with DS1.

We have also talked about this issue but in other situations and he knows that he has got to try to see things differently and the most important thing is that he understands that him getting cross really frightens DS's and that is not an acceptable way of parenting.

My worries yesterday were mainly founded on his being so blind to the problem. It does now feel that he understands that there are things that we need to keep working on.

Oh and in the midst of all the chat someone asked if our ensuite was closer than the bathroom - no twice the distance.

Phew! Glad dh has recognised what went wrong and is putting it right.

Why on earth does your dh have a problem with a dc doing a wee in the ensuite?

He sounds like a bully to me tbh.

Does he stuff like this at other times? Sounds to me like he does if he makes comments like "he's got his own way again"

I would be worried about my ds if it were me

Actually, I can see your dh had a point. I don't agree with the way he went about making his point, but I do think it is reasonable to ask ds to use the family bathroom and not disturb you by coming to use the ensuite. Also, I think you need to listen to your dh. Just because he displayed bullying behaviour the other night does not mean everything he says is wrong. He seems to feel that your ds is being allowed to get away with too many things. Now I have no idea if this is true or not, but I think you should factor his opinions into your thinking as you resolve this issue.

No-one reacts perfectly all the time .. we are all only human, and I think it is very positive that your H has recognized there are things he needs to work on, with regard to this incident and the deeper issues it highlights.

For ages I had a real bee in my bonnet (sorry, can't think of a better phrase) about DHs lack of practical help, support, understanding etc in our son's early months. When he admitted just a few days ago that he knew his behaviour had been less than great my anger about it just started to dissipate. I started to see that he was only human too, dealing badly with the shock of having a new baby.

Things are SO much better now, and he is currently out at the park with our boy, giving me some valued MN time! But if I had posted back then, I'm sure he would been flamed just as JinglyJen's H has been.

Poor kid...

Half asleep in the middle of the night - probably almost sleep walking and didn't even know which bathroom is going to...

My dd is no where there at 6... still in pullups at night else will wet the bed.

Deeply sympathise with kiddo...

what a schmuck(sp?) he has for a dad...

Sounds a bit more positive now JingleyJen. Hats off to him for admitting he was wrong. Not always easy to do.

Has he apologised to your son Jen?

I have come across situations like this before. They seem to be mainly about a parent (or teacher!) not being very confident and being scared that if he gives way on one occasion he is totally going to lose control. No more failsafe way of actually losing control, of course, than letting a child see this: it's a sure sign of lack of confidence and they know it. On the other hand, experienced parents and teachers know that picking your battles calmly is a good sign of confidence, so will make discipline easier to maintain.

In the present instance, there does seem to have been some sort of breakthrough, so hopefully things will get better. I think you are doing well in agreeing with him that he was wrong on this occasion- for maximum effect, you should follow up by trying to boost his confidence by leaving him in charge where you feel you can reasonably do so.