Help please at end of tether with 6year old

[Eucalyptusbee]

She's lovely when she's lovely

But when she's not (tired / hungry / just because) she's an absolute push every button of mine all guns blazing kid

She shouts, talks back, walks off, disobeys and disagrees. My other two are not like this at all.

I've tried being patient / love bombing / giving optons so she feels in control etc but she is so stubborn and nothing works apart from her getting her own way which obviously is not a good long term strategy

Now I'm at the point with her behavior it's been so frequent it's ground me to the point where if she even acts up a tiny bit and I see red

We had a shouting match this evening because she didn't want to wash the shampoo out her hair (no reason given)

I'm ashamed to say it but tonight I was truly horrible eg said I don't want to see you when you're like this ; get out of my sight; shut up; go away

I'm wracked with guilt afterwards but can't seem to stop myself at the time

Can anyone relate? Does anyone have any advice?

I suppose you could leave the shampoo in her hair. She may work out that hair full of dried foam isn't great. But then leave washing it off till morning. So she gets to experience the consequences of her own daftness.

Perhaps it's worth thinking what's the stuff she has to do - going to school, cleaning teeth, sitting at table for meals - not taking her siblings things. That isn't negotiable.

And with the other stuff just leave it. Don't fight. Don't react.

I should say I have a 4 month old baby and am generally quite knackered. When the 6 year old kicked off this evening she woke baby up and baby started screaming every time she shouted.

I just can't seem to control my anger under those circumstances and so just shout back

I know I shouldn't but in those moments I really can't stop myself

Please help as I feel awful

Should also say sadly no practical help avaliable from eg a DH or other so I have to manage both baby and screaming 6yo myself

Thanks everyone

@JennieLee

I suppose you could leave the shampoo in her hair. She may work out that hair full of dried foam isn't great. But then leave washing it off till morning. So she gets to experience the consequences of her own daftness.

Perhaps it's worth thinking what's the stuff she has to do - going to school, cleaning teeth, sitting at table for meals - not taking her siblings things. That isn't negotiable.

And with the other stuff just leave it. Don't fight. Don't react.

Thank you. Yes I've been trying to streamline it.

Maybe i shouldn't have pushed the washing- just hasn't been done for an age but agree, not life or death

Sadly my dd5 is like this and so am I. No advice unfortunately as I'm struggling too (today mine refused to help with tidying despite that everyone else was and wouldn't just go in her room
Wanted me in there too, cue lots of crying 'ooooowwww') consequential outcomes have helped 'if you don't go to bed I can't pack your lunchbox for your school trip tomorrow'. I hate myself when I get cross abd irritable too. Hugs.

I find it helps to think of these incidents as potential teaching moments. I'd hope to say "I feel very cross right now. I'm going to step outside of the room and come back in 5 minutes, when I feel calm".

Hopefully, this allows you to calm down, gives her some space, and maybe even teaches her how to manage her own emotions better in the future.

I appreciate it is hard in reality, with a new baby. Although the baby must be pretty disruptive to the 6yo too, she's probably about as stressed as you. x

Thanks for the solidarity and tips.

Tonight my heart broke as she said "you're not my mummy when you're like this, where's my real mummy gone?"

Yet I Still couldn't stop raging.

How is it so hard?

Practical tips gratefully received

Stay calm as far too can.. she is pushing the boundaries. Every time you ask her to do something or stop etc and she won't or carries on, tell her that's your choice but this is what will happen if you don't/ continue . Then follow through calmly every time. E.g you will spend 10 mins in your room or you will lose this toy or whatever will hit hard. Keep consequences immediate and small ish so you can increase if needed . E.g no tv tonight not to tv for a week

Oh great yes good one.

I tend to go full throttle with the threat of punishment and then can't follow through as its too outrageous (eg you wont go to x friends birthday party on the weekend )

Your tip much more sensible as think she just doesn't take me seriously atm which just leads to me seeing more rage

So hard to stay calm when holding a screaming baby though. What works best for people? Count to 20? Leave the room? I

I used to pretend I was being filmed for a parenting programme. I found getting into character diffused the frustration and fury I felt.

Pick your battles she's struggling so let some of the smaller stuff go for now.
Try not to power struggle there's a lot to be said for natural consequences so say if she doesn't want to wear a coat when going out, instead of battling say "I'm worried you will be cold if you don't wear your coat" if she still doesn't want it, take it with you but in your it on if she asks .
Behaviour is largely environment, manage the environment and the child wil manage better. So if she needs routine, quiet time, planning etc make sure she has it thinks she struggles with either don't do them or find a way to make them more manageable.

There's a great book by phillipa Perry call the book you wish your parents had read.

Thank you everyone. Super helpful. Keep it coming! I'm feeling dreadful and want to be better. I'm letting her down at the moment she is a very sweet and loving girl and I've just been awful. I'd die if I how I behaved tonight was filmed for a parenting programme

I was awful

@Eucalyptusbee She probably didn't want the shampoo to be washed off because she didn't want the soapy water to go in her eyes.

I sometimes used to imagine I was being filmed and that other people were going to be able to watch it afterwards.

Agree with consequences being small and immediate, and always directly related to the misdemeanour (eg throwing toys = toys are taken away; screaming and shouting = 5 mins on their own; walking off = she misses out on something you are offering, etc, etc). If you can't either physically remove her when she's shouting or she disobeys, then remove yourself. I used to do this regularly (one of my DC was very, very difficult and I couldn't pick them up when they were raging). I know it's hard if you're either not a calm person or if the situation as a whole is permanently stressful, but the really key thing is keeping as calm as you can. Make your voice flat and boring. Say yes to as much as you can - but "yes you can do the thing you want to do when you have stopped shouting and have played quietly for ten minutes". That sort of thing.

The other thing I became ok at was predicting what might cause an issue, and heading it off in advance (not always possible). This is bloody exhausting, though. Because it means that more or less any time you do anything, you have to go through it in detail beforehand ("In five minutes, we're going to go and run your bath/shower. We can play/talk/whatever while you're in the bath. Then we'll shampoo your hair and wash it out so that you don't get soap on your pillow. When you're dry and toothbrushed and in your pyjamas, we'll have a cuddle and stories, and then I'll tuck you up." Then little reminders throughout. It does mostly work. As I say, though, it is absolutely shattering.

I absolutely don't mean this critically, as I know it's so hard - but what you absolutely can't do is shout, because all that tells her is that shouting is what people do. She needs to learn that shouting is not normal or acceptable behaviour, and I'm afraid you're the one who has to model that.

Funny that someone else mentioned the filming thing while I was writing my long one!

Yes agreed thank you.

The shouting thing is awful. Even as I was doing it I knew how terrible I was being- shouting when q 6year old to stop shouting! The hypocrisy!!!

Yet I couldn't stop!

But it's bloody hard when holding a scream scream baby

The imagining I'm being filmed thing is good

If I'm honest- I never would have behaved like that if we'd been around other people who could have seen me. Sad but true.

Also, how do I style it tomorrow? As this was quite close bedtime I sent her to bed so we hadn't made up.

What's best to do in the morning- apologise?

Sorry so many typos. Breastfeeding

I reckon start a fresh tomorrow morning. Look for all things positive to compliment her on. Is it possibly the baby that she is jealous of? Be kind to yourself, sounds like you've got a lot going on. I'm sure you are a lovely mum and remember is all normal

@Imissmoominmama

I used to pretend I was being filmed for a parenting programme. I found getting into character diffused the frustration and fury I felt.

Yes me too. And sometimes it helps to pretend this is my job. I know how this sounds!!!! But I pretend it's my job and I want a good performance review!

I found writing down a list of consequences helped so that when I was at my wits end I wasnt also having to try and thing of the appropriate thing to say. I stuck it on the fridge 😁.

I also used 123 magic, there is a book if you want to read itbut it works something like this

In a calm moment you sit down and explain that there is a new regime as things arent working well between the two of you and you want to improve things because you want to be the best mummy you can be and that means being the boss, because you are the adult, but also training her up so that she is ready to be an adult when she is older

Then say that the next time you ask her to do something and she back chats or doesnt do it, she will get a 1. The second time will be a two, the third time will be a three.

At three there is an automatic consequence (decided before)

Then the counter resets to zero

Really horrible behaviour (like hitting the baby or you) gets an automatic three but be really careful to not use this too often

Then the REALLY important thing is that each time she gets a point, you are calm, you dont argue with her, negotiate, explain etc. you just calmly say “thats a one”

I used to put a yellow cup on top of the fridge for each count my dc had, so it was v clear and visible

The other thing you can do is ask her what parts of her life she wants some choice over..is it what she wears, what she eats, bed time etc? Then see how much leeway you can give her on the things that are most important to her and least important to you

So if clothing is a big trigger. She wants to pick her outfit, you want some oversight as she often picks crazy things. So on a Sunday you both pull out 5 tops and 5 bottoms you are both happy for her to wear that week and she then gets to mix and match them however she chooses, but she has to wear a coat and trainers or wellies if its raining

Hope there is something in this that you can find useful. Often parenting is finding the bits and pieces of other peoples ideas that you like and mixing them all up to work for you

"Should also say sadly no practical help avaliable from eg a DH or other so I have to manage both baby and screaming 6yo myself"

Are you a single parent or have a partner who works shifts/away? If so that must be tough.

I have a smaller age gap, but it was definitely harder to manage DC1's behaviour after DC2 came along. For some reason he seemed to behave worse after we'd had a particularly bad night with the baby and we had less patience than usual.

What made it easier for me to stay calm in the face of the defiance was doing some reading and thinking about the reasons behind the behaviour; when it occurred to me that he wasn't being a PITA on purpose, I found it easier to be more patient and empathetic with him.

Pick your battles is the best advice on this thread IMO. Be understanding but firm about the non-negotiable things you need her to do. Relax about everything else.

This was 100% me last night OP - I saw red and DC was off to bed in tears. I had said I didn't want to see her until she could apologise to DH and DS (she had ruined the game they were all playing in a temper) but she didn't so wasn't sure how to play it this morning. Was going to hold out for the apology but realised I was meant to be the grown up so we got up as normal - no animosity on either side and then after breakfast when I could get her on her own I asked her what was her reason for last night's behaviour, said how it made me feel and apologised for getting cross but stuck by the other consequences I'd already said and reminded her she did still owe some apologies! She's been a dream today - I am not proud of myself for losing my temper but I do think sometimes it can have the desired impact so don't beat yourself up too much - we've all been there.

@SeaToSki

I found writing down a list of consequences helped so that when I was at my wits end I wasnt also having to try and thing of the appropriate thing to say. I stuck it on the fridge 😁.

I also used 123 magic, there is a book if you want to read itbut it works something like this

In a calm moment you sit down and explain that there is a new regime as things arent working well between the two of you and you want to improve things because you want to be the best mummy you can be and that means being the boss, because you are the adult, but also training her up so that she is ready to be an adult when she is older

Then say that the next time you ask her to do something and she back chats or doesnt do it, she will get a 1. The second time will be a two, the third time will be a three.

At three there is an automatic consequence (decided before)

Then the counter resets to zero

Really horrible behaviour (like hitting the baby or you) gets an automatic three but be really careful to not use this too often

Then the REALLY important thing is that each time she gets a point, you are calm, you dont argue with her, negotiate, explain etc. you just calmly say “thats a one”

I used to put a yellow cup on top of the fridge for each count my dc had, so it was v clear and visible

The other thing you can do is ask her what parts of her life she wants some choice over..is it what she wears, what she eats, bed time etc? Then see how much leeway you can give her on the things that are most important to her and least important to you

So if clothing is a big trigger. She wants to pick her outfit, you want some oversight as she often picks crazy things. So on a Sunday you both pull out 5 tops and 5 bottoms you are both happy for her to wear that week and she then gets to mix and match them however she chooses, but she has to wear a coat and trainers or wellies if its raining

Hope there is something in this that you can find useful. Often parenting is finding the bits and pieces of other peoples ideas that you like and mixing them all up to work for you

Oh wow this is amazing. Thank you.

Thank you everyone. Really appreciate your help.

Not a single parent but DH works all hours gone before get up (leaves 530am) and not normally back till 730 ish and not involved in bedtime etc

Some really great tips

She actually got up for the toilet and we had a cuddle and I went qnd lay in her bed with her till she went back to sleep

We didn't discuss it as she was half asleep and it's late but we told each other we love each other and had a lovely snuggle so feeling like I've got a chance at a fresh start tomorrow with all your helpful tips in my mind xxx